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Vader
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 18:19

Which sort of brings back the point that increased volume of fire should somehow increase hit probability. Then, a single shot with any weapon is just a single shot.

So ... what would happen if two successes on the Ammo Dice counted as a success to the To Hit dice ... the more Ammo Dice you add, the greater the probability of scoring a pair, and thus succeed even if your To Hit dice don't?

It would tweak the overall hit probability up a bit, but not catastrophically so, I suspect...
Intriguing! :) I like it, but i guess the odds of ever scoring two successes on ammo dice is quite low even if you use a very high ROF weapon. It also doesn't really make the option of using one ammo die particularly attractive as opposed to just firing a single shot.

Agreed, still far from perfect ... but it would seem one step in the right direction, at least. An improvement over not having that mechanic, it feels like.

Perhaps someone could suggest a refinement, or some alternative?


The pics of the WIP Custom Ammo Dice shown in the Kickstarter had cartridges also on the "5" face, but I guess this has been since modified to only be on the "6" face...
Had it been on both, my mechanic would have worked wonderfully...

Umm ... perhaps there could be a "sight reticle" graphic (as on the Base Dice) in one corner on the "5" and "6" faces of the Ammo Die...?
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omnipus
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 20:42

These solutions would all seem to make hits and crits extremely likely (and probably make the game system as a whole very very deadly, and it's already no cakewalk.)

One thing I'm dealing with is that the dice rules are already quite a lot for some players, and the consequences of not understanding them are potentially lethal. But as an optional rule, once I'm sure they've got it down, I think I may introduce this:

  • After rolling all dice, the firing player may convert any TWO {bullet symbol} into ONE {target symbol} on their original target.
 
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Ser Stevos
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 20:44

Some thoughts after playing a first session with RAW rules:

1) My group decided afterwards to ditch the ammo dice mishaps as during a firefight, two people failed on ammo dice and had their guns jammed. I consider this rather unlucky die rolls but it was enough to ditch it. We like playing with mishaps on 1s for the attack rolls; ammo dice increase the chances too much. Further, we see expending lots of ammo as a good enough disincentive to not use all your ammo dice.

2) The ROF on sniper rifles is whack. As others have stated here, because you need to use minimum one ammo dice, the guy/gal with the hunting rifle could fire anywhere between 1 to 6 shots. Let's say a sniper takes a turn to line up their shot with the telescopic sights (+2 mod on attack roll; slow action) at an unsuspecting target then next turn they unleash 6 bullets at the target even though they were aiming! There needs to be a rule similar to launchers for sniper rifle use. One shot, one kill. Now, I think ammo dice work very well for ARs and the like. One ammo dice (between 1-6 shots) reflects well what the average soldier would be "conservative" shots for a soldier during a firefight. I think it'd be a mistake to add a "one shot rule" for ARs, etc as some have suggested. It's already reflected with that one ammo die roll.
 
omnipus
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 20:49

A lot of the complaint about single shots does seem to come down to "but if I'm a sniper, then I'm going to wait for my one perfect shot!" And sure, I think that is totally fair... if you have the training! So another idea I have is to rewrite the Sniper specialization to be about ammo dice. I'm not sure what, perhaps it allows you to reroll any one ammo die and keep the lower result. Maybe it gives you a -1 to each ammo die (annoying to keep track of, so maybe it only applies when only rolling 1 die).

Unfortunately I also see it as sort of a no-go, since every other specialization simply grants a +1 to some subset of tasks.

Otherwise I think the place for single-shot rules may be under strict ambush circumstances. Regardless Tomas said they were taking a look at it so probably there will be a single-shot rule of some sort. I would hope it applies only to manually-advanced weapons!
 
welsh
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 20:52

Two successes on ammo dice causing a hit could also result in you hitting someone other than the intended target, which makes perfect sense with machine guns.

Which leads me to another point: when ammo dice for full auto fire give an additional hit, and there is more than one character in the targeted hex, it should not be player's choice re who gets that hit. I would always die roll that.

Re sniper, this is already giving you a +1 to hit. So if you take the +1, the +1 for aiming, and apply a -1 for a single shot ... imo, problem solved. I wouldn't overthink the single shot.

Again the point of the -1 is to penalize the decision not to make a followup shot on a miss, which is completely reasonable on an aimed shot.
 
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Vader
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 20:53

Let's say a sniper takes a turn to line up their shot with the telescopic sights (+2 mod on attack roll; slow action) at an unsuspecting target then next turn they unleash 6 bullets at the target

:lol: :lol: :lol:
...yeah.
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Fenhorn
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 20:56

Which leads me to another point: when ammo dice for full auto fire give an additional hit, and there is more than one character in the targeted hex, it should not be player's choice re who gets that hit. I would always die roll that.
Why, doesn't the player know what he shoot at, it is not stray bullets.

edit: I think Tomas said (somewhere) that they had single shot rules first, for aimed scoped attacks. I might remember wrong, but that might come back.
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welsh
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 21:02

Because full auto fire is inherently inaccurate, and also because machine guns are area weapons: you fire a machine gun into a hex to attack the hex, not a single person in that hex.

The problem with this idea is that you can't crit anyone but the person you shot at.
 
DoktorD
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 21:04

Because full auto fire is inherently inaccurate, and also because machine guns are area weapons: you fire a machine gun into a hex to attack the hex, not a single person in that hex.
But that extra hit from the ammo dice can be from an SVD-63 for instance, not necessarily spraying full auto :)
 
welsh
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Wed 02 Dec 2020, 21:05

Note I referred specifically to full auto fire.

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