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Morticanis
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Posts: 19
Joined: Sat 28 Nov 2020, 06:02

Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 06:42

So, according to the rules, pg 61:
AMMO DICE: Firearms give you ammo dice to add to your skill roll. Six such tan colored D6s are included in this boxed set. You can add as many ammo dice to your attack as you like, from a minimum of one up to the rate of fire (RoF) rating of your weapon.
So, I am mandated to roll at LEAST one ammo die per shot...for weapons that require ammo dice...

The possible pay off is that if I hit a 6, I get to add another hit to my target (provided my original attack hits), or possibly suppress them...and all of that is fine...until I get to Ammunition use.
AMMO SPENT: After your roll (and any reroll), you need to sum up the D6 digits on all of your ammo dice. This sum is the total amount of ammunition spent on the attack.
Wait....what?

So, if I'm using a M1894 with a magazine capacity of 8 rounds, and a rate of fire of one, I must roll an "Ammo Die" each time I fire, and if I roll a 5 each time, I get no additional benefit, but I've burned up all of my ammo in 2 attempts?

Pick any weapon with a higher RoF. Say the M16A2, with a RoF of 3 (because of it's built in controlled 3-round burst). According to the Ammo Spent rule, it is POSSIBLE that I cold burn 18 rounds in a single round using the 3 RoF? Even though the weapon cannot physically do that?

My suggestion:

Alter the ammo spent mechanic to:
AMMO SPENT: After your roll (and any reroll), you need to add up the number of rolled ammo dice. This sum is the total amount of ammunition spent on the attack.
You cannot roll more ammo dice than what you have left in the magazine.
This adds to the mishap mechanic, and forces ammo counting, but doesn't drain ammo the way the current mechanic does.
 
hiro
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri 11 Sep 2020, 06:01

Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 08:27

Pick any weapon with a higher RoF. Say the M16A2, with a RoF of 3 (because of it's built in controlled 3-round burst). According to the Ammo Spent rule, it is POSSIBLE that I cold burn 18 rounds in a single round using the 3 RoF? Even though the weapon cannot physically do that?
I'm not sure I understand this, please, help me out here.

According to section 4 of the player manual, a round is 5-10 seconds long.

You're saying that in that time, a person couldn't pull the trigger of an M16A2 6 times and expend 18 rounds? That an M16A2 can't physically do this?
 
HorusZA
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat 28 Nov 2020, 08:48

Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 08:58

To add to the confusion: Weapons with a capacity of 1 also have a ROF of 1, which doesn't make much sense.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 09:08

To add to the confusion: Weapons with a capacity of 1 also have a ROF of 1, which doesn't make much sense.
I may not be fully awake yet, but capacity of what exactly?
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
HorusZA
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat 28 Nov 2020, 08:48

Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 09:13

To add to the confusion: Weapons with a capacity of 1 also have a ROF of 1, which doesn't make much sense.
I may not be fully awake yet, but capacity of what exactly?
Sorry, to clarify: Magazine capacity. A zip-gun, for example, is a one-shot weapon with a RoF of 1.
This allows me to roll 1 ammo die and potentially hit two targets... a feat Robin Hood would be proud of!
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 09:23

To add to the confusion: Weapons with a capacity of 1 also have a ROF of 1, which doesn't make much sense.
I may not be fully awake yet, but capacity of what exactly?
Sorry, to clarify: Magazine capacity. A zip-gun, for example, is a one-shot weapon with a RoF of 1.
This allows me to roll 1 ammo die and potentially hit two targets... a feat Robin Hood would be proud of!

That is not how it works.

If all ammo dice are removed (because even the lowest ammo die shows a number higher than the number of bullets left in the magazine), the attack still happens, and the magazine is
emptied.

This mean that if you have only one bullet in your magazine and the ammo dice shows any number above, it is removed from the roll (since it more bullets than you have) and you deduct one (your only) bullet from your magazine and the attack still happens counting only your base dice (i.e. one possible hit only).
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
HorusZA
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Joined: Sat 28 Nov 2020, 08:48

Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 09:35

If all ammo dice are removed (because even the lowest ammo die shows a number higher than the number of bullets left in the magazine), the attack still happens, and the magazine is
emptied.

This mean that if you have only one bullet in your magazine and the ammo dice shows any number above, it is removed from the roll (since it more bullets than you have) and you deduct one (your only) bullet from your magazine and the attack still happens counting only your base dice (i.e. one possible hit only).
So what's the benefit of rolling the ammo die at all then?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 10:10

None, but you have to roll it. If you roll a one (and one bullet you do have) you can have a mishap.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
aspqrz
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon 07 Sep 2020, 12:17
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 15:24

None, but you have to roll it. If you roll a one (and one bullet you do have) you can have a mishap.

If the weapon in question is a Revolver then the 'mishap' is likely to be cleared by the simple expedient of pulling the trigger and rotating away from the dud round.

There's a small chance, admittedly, in a Bolt Action Rifle that the casehead may have separated from the case (or some other rare and complex, or complex so it's rare, malfunction or misfeed) and it will be a bugger to clear ... or that it's a hang fire. I remember training on the SLR (Australian FN-FAL) in 1974/75 and the Hang Fire drill was counting to 5 (or 10?) and then working the action to eject the almost certainly dud round at that point.

Phil McGregor
========
Author: Space Opera (FGU); Rigger Black Book #1 (FASA); Orbis Mundi 2, The Marketplace, Ithura & Porthaven, Fantasy Europe (PGD); Road to Armageddon & Supplements, Displaced, Audace ad Gloriam, Farm, Forge & Steam (PGD).
 
Morticanis
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Sat 28 Nov 2020, 15:42

According to section 4 of the player manual, a round is 5-10 seconds long.

You're saying that in that time, a person couldn't pull the trigger of an M16A2 6 times and expend 18 rounds? That an M16A2 can't physically do this?
No. In that span of time, you theoretically could - theoretically you could dump as many as 150 rounds in 10 seconds with an A2...but why would you?

You're in a strange place, surrounded by bad people, and the only supplies you have are on your back...trigger discipline might play a role here. But the ammo spent mechanic prevents that.

The game version of the M40A3 has a RoF of 1. In the real world, it has a RoF of 6 per minute. Using the Ammo Dice, my one shot to the bad guys melon may in fact cost me 5 rounds...but in only 5-10 seconds...

Look, I get the WHY of the mechanic...in a combat situation a person probably isn't counting rounds, they're surviving. But if this plays out, even the way the book describes the hunting encounter, (pg 141),the players are gooing to be dumping ammo in every situation:
Now, he takes the shot, using three ammo dice, just to be sure. He hits with one on his base dice and gets one on his ammo dice, hitting the animal twice for 2 damage points each, for a total of 4. The moose goes down.
In that example, Top used at least TEN rounds to bring down that Moose (We're not told the value of the other two ammo dice, but no mishaps are mentioned)....When was the last time you saw a Hunter get ten rounds off against an animal?

Finally, even Fenhorn when responding to "What's the benefit of rolling ammo dice if you only have one round left?" stated:
None, but you have to roll it. If you roll a one (and one bullet you do have) you can have a mishap.
Except that the mishap mechanic is already built in to every roll...isn't this just piling on? If I roll the 6, I don't get the benefit, but I get to ADD a 17% chance of failure to EVERY shot I take?

Ouch.
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