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Viperion_NZ
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Thu 11 Mar 2021, 20:59

As for the "do dice even exist" metaphysics discussion: there's one place I can think of where it matters, which is mishaps. If you do not have the relevant skill at all, then rolling a single mishap result counts as a mishap. If you do have the skill, though, and the die was simply modified out of existence, then you still need to roll 2 mishap results to get hosed.
Ah, interesting, and a good catch! The way the Mishap section is worded does seem to support that interpretation (and it makes an amount of sense too).

Can one of the developers comment to confirm/deny? There is a little bit of weirdness introduced in that someone with a D rated skill who gets a -1 modifier can then never roll a mishap (unless they're shooting and using ammo dice), but someone who is better in the same situation still can roll one, which I'd have to ruminate on for a bit
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Thu 11 Mar 2021, 21:15

As for the "do dice even exist" metaphysics discussion: there's one place I can think of where it matters, which is mishaps. If you do not have the relevant skill at all, then rolling a single mishap result counts as a mishap. If you do have the skill, though, and the die was simply modified out of existence, then you still need to roll 2 mishap results to get hosed.
Ah, interesting, and a good catch! The way the Mishap section is worded does seem to support that interpretation (and it makes an amount of sense too).

Can one of the developers comment to confirm/deny? There is a little bit of weirdness introduced in that someone with a D rated skill who gets a -1 modifier can then never roll a mishap (unless they're shooting and using ammo dice), but someone who is better in the same situation still can roll one, which I'd have to ruminate on for a bit
In the Alpha, you roll a mishap if you got the number of 1s equal the number of base dice you rolled in the skill roll. So if you have B D in a ranged combat situation and you are using a ROF of 1 but on medium range (so -1), you will roll a d10 and an ammo die for the attack. If any one of the dice (base or ammo) end up with on a 1 you have rolled a mishap (you may still have hit your target, the mishap comes after the hit in that case). If you do the same attack on short range you would have rolled a d10+d6 and an ammo die. If any two of the three dice ends up on a 1s, you mishap.

This may have changed in the Beta.
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TIgernan
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Thu 11 Mar 2021, 21:41

I am a little confused... I do not recall anywhere, that I wrote that a Marine just gives up after shooting an missing? And how is that applicable? I was just saying that I interpret the rules a certain way.

Each combat round a person chooses to take a single shot, not using ammo dice, and makes a single (modified) to hit roll. Either aimed or a snap shot.

Or he fires multiple shots within the rate of fire of his weapon, thus using the ammo dice and expending a variable amount of ammo. If he misses, he has to wait for the next combat round to shoot again. Either a single shot or multiple shots. There is a trade off of using either option.

Rinse and repeat. Nothing there about saying oh damn I missed, guess I am done. But sorry I made a comment, I will keep my experience and interpretations to myself.
~ Not as lean, or as mean, but always a Marine
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Viperion_NZ
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Thu 11 Mar 2021, 22:38

In the Alpha, you roll a mishap if you got the number of 1s equal the number of base dice you rolled in the skill roll. So if you have B D in a ranged combat situation and you are using a ROF of 1 but on medium range (so -1), you will roll a d10 and an ammo die for the attack. If any one of the dice (base or ammo) end up with on a 1 you have rolled a mishap
.
Ah that's how I thought it worked. So unfortunately for Omnipus, this:

As for the "do dice even exist" metaphysics discussion: there's one place I can think of where it matters, which is mishaps. If you do not have the relevant skill at all, then rolling a single mishap result counts as a mishap. If you do have the skill, though, and the die was simply modified out of existence, then you still need to roll 2 mishap results to get hosed.
isn't correct.
.
This may have changed in the Beta.
Ooooooh. Intriguing.
 
paladin2019
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Fri 12 Mar 2021, 01:25

I am a little confused... I do not recall anywhere, that I wrote that a Marine just gives up after shooting an missing? And how is that applicable? I was just saying that I interpret the rules a certain way.
When the rules posit that it takes 1-6 rounds to try to score at least one hit, choosing to only fire one round is choosing to quit.

Using ammo dice has no relation to whether the giggle switch has been rotated from Efficient to Fun. It is simply a decision about how fast you are willing to jank the bang switch with your boogerhook. It is a far preferable system to increasing the difficulty of hitting a live target returning fire and proceeding as, "Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Hit! Finally! Umm, how many rolls was that?"
 
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Viperion_NZ
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Fri 12 Mar 2021, 03:07

Using ammo dice has no relation to whether the giggle switch has been rotated from Efficient to Fun.
HAHAHAH!
...and proceeding as, "Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Miss. Would you like to try again?"..."Hit! Finally! Umm, how many rolls was that?"
Ah that's an interesting take; it's less "I'm wasting bullets" and more "this is how many bullets it took to get a hit" or (in the case of a miss) "this is how many bullets it took before I stopped trying"
 
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omnipus
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Fri 12 Mar 2021, 03:22

Yes, exactly. Being able to fire one shot, and one shot only, regardless of the outcome, in a situation where you are in mortal threat over 5-10 seconds should be exceedingly rare. I know a ruling on this is coming, so I'm not going to get into it in depth as it is most definitely a dead horse. None of my players have had any issue with expending 3-4 rounds on average in a combat turn. If someone asked, I'd make it require a CUF roll to proceed. Fail and pay some small consequence. You're obviously free to play however you want but the ammo rules are intrinsic and not at all optional as included.

The rule is needed for non-combat shooting situations still, I think. Hunting (whatever your prey of choice) is the big one.
 
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omnipus
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Fri 12 Mar 2021, 03:24

As for mishaps and modifiers... I've gone and re-read the alpha rules to make sure I'm not crazy and... I'm not.

Page 43, general skill checks:
If both dice in your skill roll show a 1, or if you lack a skill level and roll a 1 on your single die, you suffer a mishap.

Page 62, ranged combat checks:
If you lack a skill level for the weapon you use, rolling just a single 1, on any die, will trigger a mishap. Note that this means firing guns without any skill level in RANGED COMBAT runs a high risk of triggering a mishap, especially if the weapon has a high rate of fire.
 
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Viperion_NZ
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Fri 12 Mar 2021, 03:34

Yeah, I agree Rules As Written make the distinction, but outside of combat that rule results in wackiness (Someone with Survival D making a camp in the rain [-1 modifier] cannot mishap, while someone with Survival B can)

The wording needs to be cleaned up but I think the intention is clear.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Ammo Dice...why?

Fri 12 Mar 2021, 03:48

Page 43 Mishaps
If both dice in your skill roll shows a 1, or if you lack a skill level and roll a 1 on your single die, you suffer a mishap.
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