AEB
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 07:36

You need altitude or the flare hits the ground before it finishes burning. In the Australian Army we were taught never to fire a flare below 45 degrees and more like 66 degrees for safety. Bushfires aren't a concern in Poland but a flare will still travel in an arch as it isn't high velocity.

At a guess I'd say half the altitude as range.
 
welsh
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 14:30

I was thinking 100 m or so. The rules for burn time are potentially quite silly: I did a quick test scenario and the first flare burned out in 1 turn (must have been defective); then the second burned for 3 whole minutes. It must have been riding an updraft. :)

So in practice I would limit the burn time of a paraflare. Also, handheld paraflares tend to drift which isn't accounted for in the rules at all.

Finally, I note the rules seem to want flares to light up an area like day. You still have to spot and shoot what's under the flare and I suggest a -1 to those rolls is in order.

Also (post-finally!) there are no trip flares.
 
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pansarskott
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 15:04

Examples from Sweden:

Pistol. Short range, "illuminates" what's immediately in front of you. Short duration. It's been decades since I fired one of these, but I would say it lasts a game turn. I.e. it illuminates the same turn it fires in.
Image

A little longer range: "Närlys"
Image
Range 250 m, illumination 25 seconds (2 turns, firing turn and the following turn)

Both of them sucks. Since the illumination source is moving, the shadows will change.

Then there's illumination rounds for mortars, artillery and even for the Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle.
 
welsh
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 15:28

Given a round is 5 - 10 s, a burn time of 25 s ought to be treated as 3 - 5 turns.
 
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Vader
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 16:21

Then there's illumination rounds for mortars, artillery and even for the Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle.

Glöm inte Lyran.
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...[i]and[/i] checked if something more was posted after it? ;)
 
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pansarskott
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 17:40

correct, welsh. i was thinking 10-15 seconds for some reason.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyran_illuminating_mortar

Image
 
welsh
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 18:03

That mortar ought to be in the game. Though I suppose a 60 mm mortar would be functionally the same....

All the mortars and artillery have ILLUM rounds listed but there is none for the Carl G. In fact the Carl G gets shortchanged, as there is only one type of ammo available for it and versatility is one of its real advantages. Also I think an ILLUM round would make a dandy incendiary. :)
 
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pansarskott
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 18:24

The main use for the CG 84 mm ILLUM round was for ATGM (RBS-56) shooting up to 2000 meter. That use case might be gone after introduction of thermal sights in the early 90's
 
omnipus
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 21:52

Standard military paraflares that I've looked up illuminate a radius of about 55 m, corresponding roughly to blast power D.

Not sure what altitude they reach, but the real question imo is how far away you can reliably put the illumination.
55m is not blast power D. Blast power D only has a single-hex effect. Blast power A or B is more like it.

In any case I have a decent amount of experience with some old surplus east bloc flares. Especially ones we called "Czech comedy flares" that are a handheld tube-fired thing, similar to the Russian ones. Dunno if it was just age or they were always like this but the effectiveness varies wildly. Sometimes they work as expected, lighting up a pretty good size area (50-100 meters seems right) with colored light (red, IIRC - probably there were some options) for nearly a minute. Other times they would immediately shoot off in an extremely not-straight direction out of the tube at high speed, smacking into a tree or whatever 10 meters away and being useless/a liability. Sometimes they would snag in tree branches on the way down, which was a benefit as it meant they'd function for slightly longer, the taller the tree was!

But yeah, low-tech illum options like these will be important. I agree that they might create an area of good vision but still count as dim light for purposes of shooting at anything within.
 
welsh
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Re: [ALPHA] "so i am missing x vehicle/gear/weapon"

Mon 14 Dec 2020, 22:06

55m is not blast power D. Blast power D only has a single-hex effect.
With respect to illumination, the flare illuminates a radius equal to the die size of the blast power:
D - 60 m
C - 80 m
B - 100 m
A - 120 m
(see p.29 Player's Manual)

I think this probably underpowers arty-delivered flares but that's hard to say without looking things up.

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