Jizmack
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri 12 Feb 2016, 23:48

Defense dice instead of combat modifiers

Mon 14 Sep 2020, 08:58

Looking for some feedback please...

In my humble opinion, modifying attribute/skill dice seems awkward and too severe.
Instead, the target rolls defense dice to oppose the attack roll, which would be more granular and perhaps more intuitive.

Examples
Target behind soft cover = D6
Target behind hard cover = D8
Target behind prone = D8
Target at two range steps = D6
Target at three range steps = D8
Target at four range steps = D10
Target at five range steps = D12
Dim light, thin fog/smoke = D8
Darkness, thick fog/smoke = D12

For example, a target on the ground (+D8) behind some foliage (+D6) and three range steps (+D8) away would roll 2D8+1D6 to oppose the attack roll. On average, the defender in this situation would negate about one success from the attack roll.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
 
Nicolas Michon
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun 06 Sep 2020, 21:18

Re: Defense dice instead of combat modifiers

Mon 14 Sep 2020, 11:29

Interesting idea, opposed die rolls tend to create more of a Gauss or bell curve. But it would need to be thoroughly tested.
 
omnipus
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2020, 20:58

Re: Defense dice instead of combat modifiers

Thu 17 Sep 2020, 04:17

In designs I've done, I usually break out some factors into dice modifiers and others into saving throws, if only to differentiate between "always on" and occasional factors. So for instance I would tend use a "defense die" saving throw for body armor or maybe other hard cover, but distinguish that from shooting factors and so on.
 
User avatar
aramis
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri 14 Jun 2019, 20:34
Location: Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Defense dice instead of combat modifiers

Fri 18 Sep 2020, 05:26

My concern with opposed rolls, given the math, is that it's a much wider shift.
1d6:  1s = 16.6%
1d8:  1s = 37.5%  2s = 0
1d10: 1s = 40.0%  2s = 10.0%
1d12: 1s = 33.3%  2s = 25.0%
A -1 die shift from d10 (high competence) is a 22.5% reduction in hitting 1 or more...
A -2 die shift from d10 is a -24.3% reduction.
An opposed d10 vs d6 (minimum granularity)
      d6                        d8
d10   6  5  4  3  2  1	| d10   8  7  6  5  4  3  2  1
 10   1  2  2  2  2  2  |  10   1  1  1  2  2  2  2  2
  9   0  1  1  1  1  1  |   9   0  0  0  1  1  1  1  1
  8   0  1  1  1  1  1  |   8   0  0  0  1  1  1  1  1
  7   0  1  1  1  1  1  |   7   0  0  0  1  1  1  1  1
  6   0  1  1  1  1  1  |   6   0  0  0  1  1  1  1  1
  5  -1  0  0  0  0  0  |   5  -1 -1 -1  0  0  0  0  0
  4  -1  0  0  0  0  0  |   4  -1 -1 -1  0  0  0  0  0  
  3  -1  0  0  0  0  0  |   3  -1 -1 -1  0  0  0  0  0
  2  -1  0  0  0  0  0  |   2  -1 -1 -1  0  0  0  0  0
  1  -1  0  0  0  0  0  |   1  -1 -1 -1  0  0  0  0  0

 2s   5/60   8.33%      |  2s   5/80   6.25
 1s  21/60  35.00%      |  1s  23/80  28.75
 0s  29/60  48.30%      |  0s  37/80  46.25
-1s   5/60   8.33%      | -1s  15/80  18.75
A d6 resisting a d10 is a 7.66% reduction... but it also introduces a -1 Success condition.
A d8 resisting a d10 is a 15% reduction, but note the almost 19% -1 successes condition.

So, you're going to be doing MAJOR changes to the resistance.
—————————————————————————
Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...
 
Jizmack
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri 12 Feb 2016, 23:48

Re: Defense dice instead of combat modifiers

Fri 18 Sep 2020, 10:23

A d6 resisting a d10 is a 7.66% reduction... but it also introduces a -1 Success condition.
A d8 resisting a d10 is a 15% reduction, but note the almost 19% -1 successes condition.

So, you're going to be doing MAJOR changes to the resistance.
Thanks for the feedback.
A negative success condition don’t mean anything. If the opposed defense dice roll equal of more successes, it‘s the same as a failed to hit result.
All of this will absolutely need to be thoroughly tested... that’s way I’m proposing it before the Alfa rules are made available.
 
User avatar
aramis
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri 14 Jun 2019, 20:34
Location: Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Defense dice instead of combat modifiers

Fri 18 Sep 2020, 12:54

A negative success mechanic exists in almost every other YZE game on opposed rolls, so if including the opposed roll, then not allowing for it in T2K is an odd choice.
—————————————————————————
Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...
 
Jizmack
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri 12 Feb 2016, 23:48

Re: Defense dice instead of combat modifiers

Sat 19 Sep 2020, 01:15

A negative success mechanic exists in almost every other YZE game on opposed rolls, so if including the opposed roll, then not allowing for it in T2K is an odd choice.
Rolling defense dice instead of modifying your skill roll is not the same as an opposed roll.
Opposed means you are in a direct struggle with another character, skill vs skill.
Defense dice represent the environment, like cover, range, visibility, etc.
 
User avatar
aramis
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri 14 Jun 2019, 20:34
Location: Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Defense dice instead of combat modifiers

Sun 20 Sep 2020, 06:50

A negative success mechanic exists in almost every other YZE game on opposed rolls, so if including the opposed roll, then not allowing for it in T2K is an odd choice.
Rolling defense dice instead of modifying your skill roll is not the same as an opposed roll.
Opposed means you are in a direct struggle with another character, skill vs skill.
Defense dice represent the environment, like cover, range, visibility, etc.
WHich makes it inconsistent with Alien, Vaesen, Forbidden Lands, etc...
—————————————————————————
Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aspqrz, cheeplives, Fenhorn, Mallear and 5 guests