jasonwocky
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Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Tue 11 Aug 2020, 16:09

I notice that the Opposed Roll rules in Vaesen don't have any language about how each opposed success "subtracts out" one of your successes. This is different from, say, Forbidden Lands or Coriolis where that language is plainly written. Was this an oversight or does Vaesen do it differently from other games?

This matters for the Rulebook situations of Poisoning and Bartering with a Reluctant Seller, so I was hoping I could get a rule clarification on it.

For example, if I'm bartering with a reluctant seller for his Sword (Availability/Target Number 4) I need to make an opposed MANIPULATION test modified by my Resource bonus. I roll 4 successes, my opponent rolls 2. In Forbidden Lands, that would be a failure since the opponent's successes subtracts out two of mine. In Vaesen RAW, however, that would be a success since I didn't lose the opposed roll and I achieved a number of successes equal to the item's availability.

I think either scenario "works" but I'm curious what the intent was.

Poison would be a similar situation. If I roll 2 successes in my Resist Poison FORCE test and the GM rolls 3, do I take 3 Conditions or only 1? Again I could see it going either way.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Tue 11 Aug 2020, 17:27

I would be very surprised if successes aren't subtracted. Otherwise it would be a "winner takes all" and that seems unlikely. At least that is how I is going to play it.

But the writer of Vaesen has used "player-faced" rules before (only the players roll the dice) so it might be so that he intended it that way. Looking at the poison rule, it looks that way.
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Fenhorn
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Re: Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Tue 11 Aug 2020, 18:22

Now when I have read about various "opposed roll" situations it seems that how this works will differ depending on skill.

Manipulation: Here it say "When you get more successes than you need, you can use them to <>". So here you use excess successes as normal.
Ambush and Sneak Attack: It doesn't matter with how much you succeed, the winner draws an extra init card (and chooses).
Poison: It says that "If you fail, you suffer a number of Conditions equal to the Gamemaster's successes.". So it doesn't matter with how much the poison "won" over you, you will suffer the poison's successes number of Conditions.
Shopping (with unwilling): This could go either way. The most logical would be to deduct the "unwilling seller's" successes from yours since this is some sort of haggling.
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Nilo
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Re: Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Wed 12 Aug 2020, 11:59

In opposed rolls you need to get more successes than your opponent. It is on page 42 of the Swedish book ( I do not yet have the English). Extra successes are those that were not needed to win. So if I get 4 successes and you get 2, I have 1 extra success.

Poison is not seen as an opposed roll between your character and another person in the fiction, even though the Gamemaster rolls dice to see how difficult your roll will be.

The rules for buying stuff with an opposed roll seems hard--but they should only be used for a situation when a person does not want to sell, which is not the common situation.
A: "I want to buy your silver necklace"
B: "No way, it was a gift from my late wife"
B: But I need it!"
If the characters try to buy something from a tradesman, it is not an opposed roll.

For ambush you get an extra card for initiative if you win, but you also get extra successes as bonus to your first roll in the fight.
Last edited by Nilo on Wed 12 Aug 2020, 12:22, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Wed 12 Aug 2020, 12:15

Thanks for the clarification.
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jasonwocky
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Re: Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Wed 12 Aug 2020, 14:59

Poison is not seen as an opposed roll between your character and another person in the fiction, even though the Gamemaster rolls dice to see how difficult your roll will be.
Is there different wording in the Swedish rulebook? In the English rulebook it's specifically an opposed roll.
The rules for buying stuff with an opposed roll seems hard--but they should only be used for a situation when a person does not want to sell, which is not the common situation.
I agree but I'd rather not houserule them if I had an understanding of the intent.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Wed 12 Aug 2020, 15:05

Poison is not seen as an opposed roll between your character and another person in the fiction, even though the Gamemaster rolls dice to see how difficult your roll will be.
Is there different wording in the Swedish rulebook? In the English rulebook it's specifically an opposed roll.

Opposed rolls (as for the rule on p.42) in Vaesen are between two characters, not between one character and an effect (like poison). Even though technically the roll against poison is an opposed roll with the regard that you compare two rolls.
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jasonwocky
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Re: Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Wed 12 Aug 2020, 23:07

Opposed rolls (as for the rule on p.42) in Vaesen are between two characters, not between one character and an effect (like poison). Even though technically the roll against poison is an opposed roll with the regard that you compare two rolls.
p70 "When you are subjected to poison, you and the Gamemaster make an opposed roll"...this doesn't seem like a technical point, but black-letter RAW.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Wed 12 Aug 2020, 23:19

Opposed rolls (as for the rule on p.42) in Vaesen are between two characters, not between one character and an effect (like poison). Even though technically the roll against poison is an opposed roll with the regard that you compare two rolls.
p70 "When you are subjected to poison, you and the Gamemaster make an opposed roll"...this doesn't seem like a technical point, but black-letter RAW.
The writer of the game has answered how this work:
Poison is not seen as an opposed roll between your character and another person in the fiction, even though the Gamemaster rolls dice to see how difficult your roll will be.

What he mean with this is that poison doesn't count as an opposed roll as per the rule on p.42, even though you and the GM roll against each other. The rule on p.42 is used for PC vs. N(PC) skill rolls. Poison is (N)PC vs. effect.

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Nilo
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Re: Opposed Rolls in Vaesen

Thu 13 Aug 2020, 08:13

Poison is not seen as an opposed roll between your character and another person in the fiction, even though the Gamemaster rolls dice to see how difficult your roll will be.
Is there different wording in the Swedish rulebook? In the English rulebook it's specifically an opposed roll.
The rules for buying stuff with an opposed roll seems hard--but they should only be used for a situation when a person does not want to sell, which is not the common situation.
I agree but I'd rather not houserule them if I had an understanding of the intent.
Oh, I see that you are absolutely right about the wording regarding poison, it says opposed roll, in both the Swedish and the English text. Sorry! And it works just as an opposed roll. My bad for not checking the text... (Though the rules work as written)

I don’t really understand what you mean with houseruling the rules about buying?

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