benjijneb
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu 23 Apr 2020, 15:14

Ensnaring quality & Ensnare & Whip Fighter Talents

Sat 25 Apr 2020, 10:20

Hello Everyone.

I've some questions about the Ensnaring qualities and how does it works with both Ensnare & Whip Fighters abilities.

In the APG we can read the following :
The weapon can be used to snare a target, which is done with a passed [Accurate←Quick] test. An ensnared target cannot move and gets a second chance to fail all success tests. Every attempt to get free requires spending a combat action; this forces the attacker to test [Accurate←Quick] again in order to keep the target in check. Ensnaring melee weapons can be used to try to knock a target prone. The attempt counts as a combat action and requires a passed [Strong←Strong] to succeed. A fallen target cannot get up until it has been freed from the ensnaring effect.
Its not really clear to me how does it works. First of all, is the ensnaring roll is an additional roll after the attack roll or does it count as the attack roll. As I understand it, it is an additionnal roll to the attack roll, because it doesn't say that it counts as a combat action.
On the contrary, knocking prone a target seems to be an attack roll, but it says that the fallen target must be freed from ensnaring effet, so knocking prone does also snare the target with no ensnaring roll ? Or you have to first ensnare the target and next turn, knock him prone ?

It seems to be OK with the description of ensnare ability where we can read :
Novice Active. The character gains a second chance to ensnare a target (requires a weapon with the quality Ensnaring, see page 118).
Adept Active. In addition to the novice effect, the character gains a second chance to bring down an ensnared enemy (requires a weapon with the quality Ensnaring, see page 118).
But. Both are active abilties, so, either you do an attack roll and then an ensnare roll for which we have 2 chances, OR you do a knocking prone roll and you have also two chances.
But, why mention in the adept that it is then in addition to the novice effect and also mention the fact that the ennemy must be ensnared ? If they are two differents attacks why the addition mention ? And why are they Active ? Why not passive ?

It gets even weirder in master :
Master Reaction. The character’s skill with ensnaring weapons is such that every ensnaring attack is assumed to hit the target’s neck and have a strangling effect; besides the ensnaring effect and the chance to bring down the enemy, the target suffers 1D6 damage, ignoring armor. If the target reaches 0 Toughness, the character can choose to make it unconscious instead of dying.
So now it is a reaction ... and the "ensnaring" seems to be automatic and the chance to bring down the enemy, an addtional roll. Am I right right finally ?

How would this work with the whip fighter ability if you have Ensnare in Master ? You do you whip attack roll, you ensnare the target if it succeeds, you try to knock him prone, and if you succeed it means that the free attack of the other hand will also have an advantage. So 1d6 whip damage, 1d6 ignoring armor and then second hand 1d8 + 1d6 (whip fighter master) + 1d4 (advantage) ?

I would be really happy if someone has answers on that, even so I know that I can do my own homemade rules, what do you think of the original rules ?
 
User avatar
Falenthal
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue 10 Mar 2020, 21:13

Re: Ensnaring quality & Ensnare & Whip Fighter Talents

Sat 25 Apr 2020, 16:29

To be honest, I also get lost when several effects and Talents combine in Symbaroum. The descriptions are not interpretation-proof, and the combinations create conflicts several times.

Even after reading your post, I confess I'm unable to come up with an answer that seems based in some official ruling. I'll keep an eye on what others might post here, but I for one feel more reinforced in my decission not to use the extra rules and options offered in the APG, as they look to me more complication in the game than is worth.
 
benjijneb
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu 23 Apr 2020, 15:14

Re: Ensnaring quality & Ensnare & Whip Fighter Talents

Sat 25 Apr 2020, 20:28

To be honest, I also get lost when several effects and Talents combine in Symbaroum. The descriptions are not interpretation-proof, and the combinations create conflicts several times.

Even after reading your post, I confess I'm unable to come up with an answer that seems based in some official ruling. I'll keep an eye on what others might post here, but I for one feel more reinforced in my decission not to use the extra rules and options offered in the APG, as they look to me more complication in the game than is worth.
Thank you anyway. I hope some official will pass by and have an answer. I will also post my question on reddit.
 
User avatar
SAbel
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed 21 Aug 2019, 03:04
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Ensnaring quality & Ensnare & Whip Fighter Talents

Sat 16 May 2020, 20:06

I believe that I would rule this;
1 must make an attack roll.
2. if successful attack, then move to ensnare rules.
Now I would make the 1st ensnare roll free with the 2nd chance if they have the talent [AKA a weapon that ensnares is meant to tangle up an opponent, the user may not wish to ensnare but they can if they would like.

AT Adept level adds the bring down effect [with 2 chances to succeed.] if they chose to bring down and success is made I would still rule these as free
Master is plus a d6 damage, and if wanted, can strangle. All Free

So why not multiple attacks and why active vs. passive:

Symbaroum is meant to be deadly challenging action build into a dark and dangerous world. The Key for me is this if entangle is weapon prosperity, and you can attempt to do it without the talent. The talent is representing training, skill, and dedication to the nature of the entangle weapon, so the character should become more spectacular as they apply the effects.

IMO that is how I would handle the talent.
no matter where you go there you are
 
User avatar
jerichojeudy
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue 11 Jun 2019, 16:08

Re: Ensnaring quality & Ensnare & Whip Fighter Talents

Sun 28 Jun 2020, 15:56

Well first of all, the Ensnare capacity of the weapon happens with your attack, lets at least get that out of the way.

So you use a Combat action to attack with a whip, eventually using an Active effect from another Ability, and roll to see if you entangle. If you want to use the Ensnare ability to get two chances to succeed that effect, you can’t use another Active ability for the initial attack, since Ensnare is Active. If you are master at Ensnare, you cause strangle damage whatever happens. But if you miss the roll to ensnare, the target is free to act on its turn and the strangle damage does not continue into the next turn.

If ensnared, the target can use an ability or attack with a second chance to fail, or use its combat action to attempt to break the snare, causing the guy with the whip to test Quick vs Strong again, without two chances to succeed, as the Novice effect of Ensnare is Active, not a Reaction.

On round two, if you succeed at ensnaring on round one, you can try to pull the ensnared person down, using a combat action to do so and possibly the Adept level effect of Ensnare. If you are Master, you again cause strangling damage.

On the victims turn, once down, it can only use its combat action to try and free itself, causing the Quick vs Strong roll without two chances of success for the guy with the whip.

Round three, if the target failed to free itself, it’s helpless on the ground, and possibly suffers strangle damage. Since the Master effect is a Reaction to the fact that the target in ensnared, the master could use another Active action that round, maybe to stab with another weapon? The whip is of course unavailable for an attack, but that’s common sense.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest