AustinGreyson
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Joined: Fri 22 May 2020, 13:58

The Long Night doesn't seem long enough?

Fri 22 May 2020, 13:58

On page 181 of the core rules, the Long Night is described as an age of darkness, isolation, and decay. Trade declined, whole cultures vanished in the sands of time, no progress was made, and populations declined. Then the Zenith arrived. But the Portal Wars that immediately preceded, and precipitated, the Long Night, ended just over a hundred years ago (page 180), and the Zenith arrived 66 years ago (page 248, omegle discord xender assuming the current year is 61 CC), so the Long Night was maybe 50 years long. That does not seem nearly enough time for people to forget the advanced technology, for cities and outposts to fall, and civilisation to recede!

And, at the same time, the Nazareem's Sacrifice cult, that was wiped out over a hundred years ago, is still around as sleeper cells in ways that the First Horizon feel confident of being able to contact. Are these multi-generational sleeper cells?

Finally, what exactly did the less than 100,000 people on the Zenith, suffering memory loss and madness from low-tech cryo-sleep, do to kickstart trade and civilisation in the Third Horizon?
 
crocoyes6
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Joined: Tue 04 Aug 2020, 11:45

Re: The Long Night doesn't seem long enough?

Wed 05 Aug 2020, 08:30

This experiment has never been tried before. And we, its unwitting authors, have never controlled it. The experiment is now moving very quickly and on a colossal scale. Since the early 1900s, the world’s population has multiplied by four and its economy—a rough measure of the human load on nature—by more than forty.3 We have reached a stage where we must bring the experiment under rational control, and guard against present and potential dangers. It’s entirely up to us. If we fail—if we blow up or degrade the biosphere so it can no longer sustain us—nature will merely shrug and conclude that letting apes run the laboratory was fun for a while but in the end a bad idea.
 
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Rymdhamster
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Joined: Sat 11 Jan 2014, 16:40

Re: The Long Night doesn't seem long enough?

Wed 05 Aug 2020, 18:22

And, at the same time, the Nazareem's Sacrifice cult, that was wiped out over a hundred years ago, is still around as sleeper cells in ways that the First Horizon feel confident of being able to contact. Are these multi-generational sleeper cells?
I'd imagine it's more like remote villages or something like that, but could also be in the form of secret orders. Kind of like the free masons =) Outsiders might well know that there is cult, they just don't know what it's all acutally about.
Finally, what exactly did the less than 100,000 people on the Zenith, suffering memory loss and madness from low-tech cryo-sleep, do to kickstart trade and civilisation in the Third Horizon?
I'd imagine they were 100 000 people picked to be able to start a civilization from scratch. So people with a lot of technical and practical know how, and a lot of the equipment needed to set upp a self sufficent existance. While the old civilization was probably still heavily reliant on importing machines, or at least components to build machines.

In an era of broken down, old DVD players, all of a sudden a bunch of people show up who can build VCR:s from scratch =D
 
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Mohawk Norwegian
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Joined: Fri 15 Mar 2019, 18:02

Re: The Long Night doesn't seem long enough?

Sat 15 Aug 2020, 17:18

the Long Night, ended just over a hundred years ago (page 180), and the Zenith arrived 66 years ago (page 248) assuming the current year is 61 CC), so the Long Night was maybe 50 years long. That does not seem nearly enough time for people to forget the advanced technology, for cities and outposts to fall, and civilisation to recede!

And, at the same time, the Nazareem's Sacrifice cult, that was wiped out over a hundred years ago, is still around as sleeper cells in ways that the First Horizon feel confident of being able to contact. Are these multi-generational sleeper cells?

Finally, what exactly did the less than 100,000 people on the Zenith, suffering memory loss and madness from low-tech cryo-sleep, do to kickstart trade and civilisation in the Third Horizon?
Hi, hope I don't come off as too preachy or condecending, just sharing my take on the game and trying to help.

First: your logic is nice but flawed.
The zenith arrived ca 61cc ago, and the long night was ca 100cc, this means that in the current game timeline, players are playing in a time period roughly 161cc since the portal wars. (Also , the period between the arrival of the Zenith and the start of the construction of Coriolis station is a bit vague, so you are free to imagine that maybe it took some years more than what's written in the book)
Further, the timekeeping standard of CC is just 61cc old, meaning that any event beyond that is vague and imprecise, as each system had their own calendar before.

(Skipping the Nazareem question to last.)

Secondly, you are making some assumptions about the Zenith and it's crew that makes you paint yourself into a corner: where does it say that 'Everybody' onboard the Zenith suffered from memory loss and madness? Why are you so sure that the cry-sleep was lower tech than what exists in the third horizon today?
Regardless, the answer to your question is that 'what the Zenithians brought that changed the Thrird Horizon ushering in an era of commerce and exploration' was their technology and understanding of portals that many firstcomers had lost. To use a Rome as a historical comparison: "all they did was build roads".

Lastly, you are not the first to wrangle with the timeline and question the logic of the history of the Third Horizon the way it is presented. I would recommend that you remember the following:
1. This games genre is Science Fantasy, so it's adherance to logic, math and science is only as far as it helps it tell its story of courtesans with electric fingertips, warriors wielding thermal rifles, smugglers with cybernetic eyes, and arabic mysteries of wonder and horror in a glaxy clustered littered with secrets, some of them older than even the Icons.
2. For any story to work you have to suspend some disbelief and buy into the premise the story (and storyteller) weaves.
You question how a cult can be wiped out and still ressurface years later?
With stasis pod tech and so much uncharted areas in the Third Horizon I ask you how can they not be?
(check out the Talons of the Court of the Owls in the batman comics some years back for inspiration)
3. All the info we have is presented in a "player-facing way", by that I mean that all the lore in the game is written from the perspective of an individual living in the Third Horizon, not for us - the readers. Which means it can be and most certainly is partially wrong in many places. The game doesn't tell the GM anything about "the truth" of the Icons, the 2 other Horizons, the location of Al-Adrah, but rather tell them that they have carte blanche to do whatever they want to the setting, its their game after all.

In my case I have decided that the Symmetry is a messed up teocratic hive mind (almost like the borg from star trek) ruled by mystics, and that the First Horizon is more akin to Terrans from Star Trek: discovery, I have placed the grave of the Martyr in Uharu, I have explained at least two "portal builder ruins", and at lest one Humanite type as actually being abandoned Symmetry Tech, and so on and so on ...

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