Vargtass
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Joined: Sat 24 Dec 2016, 11:52

Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Sun 01 Jan 2017, 17:47

My preparatory mindmap, character sheets and useful resources for testing Tales of the Loop and Summer break and killer birds.
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Testplay kit!
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edd
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Joined: Sun 01 Jan 2017, 17:20

Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Sun 01 Jan 2017, 17:57

I woud love to see more Character types.

I don't know if it's useful but it might supply some inspiration;
http://www.archetypes.com/library2/teen-archetypes2/
 
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Björn Hellqvist
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Location: Sweden

Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Sun 01 Jan 2017, 18:02

Please I would love to have more details for both Sweden and 80s for us non-Swedes. Especially cultural domestic uniquenesses of Sweden in the 80s (in the Loop); i.e. I would never have known about Snus unless I hadn't been chatting to some Swedish smokers once, But also things such as would the average home in the Loop be wooden? brick? prefabricated? How much is there a class divide? would it be noticeable in the house interior (i.e. wallpaper vs wood, type thing). 
Pop over to my "Sweden in the 80's" thread.
My life fades. The vision dims. All that remains are memories. I remember a time of chaos, ruined dreams, this wasted land.
 
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Karbonara
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Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Mon 02 Jan 2017, 11:04

Regarding items.

Early on, they were all one-time-use, and then in the Alpha, the iconic item don't have that text anymore.
For normal items though on p76, this is still mentioned.

What defines an item's bonus?
Shouldn't this just be based on how well-made it is?
Is it an item, a well-made item, or an excellent item?

In Zear Zero, this is the case. An item simply is more well-made.
But, in Tales from the Loop, when you use the "build" skill, there already seems to be a potentially cool system in place where you give attributes to an item.

From the "build" skill, the item gets attribute words (silent, sturdy, etc). I would argue then that an item has +1, but also has attributes - and for each attribute that makes sense to apply in this specific situation, gives a +1 bonus, up to a total of +3.
BONUS EFFECTS: (from the alpha rules)
* The thing is more durable than expected. Add +1 to the bonus (up to +3).
* The thing can do more than expected. Add +1 to the bonus (up to +3).
* The thing is more discreet than expected. Add +1 to the bonus (up to +3).
* The thing is high quality in some other fashion. Add +1 to the bonus (up to +3).
My thought is this:
Instead of just having different bonuses, without any clear reason (see list on page 76), I would suggest items are always +1, but MAY have "attribute" words.
They can be;
discreet (pocket knife), sturdy (crowbar), silent (snow joggers), precise (electronics tools), expensive/fashionable (golden bracelet), adaptive (multi-tool), cute (my little pony doll), compassionate (teddy bear), protective (young dog, mini robot), freightening (halloween mask) etc.


When an item is used, EACH attribute word it has, which can be applied, gives an additional +1, up to +3.
Then, either go with...
A) that items are one-use only. OR...
B) make complications remove an attribute word. The screwdrivers are no longer "precise". The halloween mask is no longer "freightening". Either because the item breaks gradually, or just because the kids no longer think of it that way (they don't believe that the mask is that freightening anymore).
Failing with a +1, no-attribute, item always "breaks" it or reduces it to prop status.

So, how to balance that with Iconic Items?
It is today unclear in the rules if iconic items are one-time use (in a scenario), or multi-use.
I also believe that an iconic item, when used in special situations, are made to be +3 items, because they ARE bloody iconic.
This can be done in several ways:
A) iconic items are +2, but when used in trouble relating to the kid's pride, relationship or problem, it becomes a +3.
B) if the item is used to "gather oneself" in an Everyday Life scene, it becomes a +3 item for its next use (or for one use, of the kid's choice).

When it comes to HOW OFTEN it may be used, I would suggest that it can be used once as a +2/+3 item, but that it then can be used as a normal +1 in all applicable situations (GM decides). It IS after all, iconic, and something the kid is very attached to.

So, summary of ITEMS thoughts:
* Items are +1
* Items have "attribute" words which apply additional bonuses when applicable to the situation.
* Complications or failures can remove an attribute
* Failure or complication with an item that no longer has attributes, breaks or redefine the item into a prop (no bonus)
* Iconic items are +2, but may be used as a +3 when facing trouble related to the kid's pride, relationships or problem – or maybe when previously "imbued" with status by the kid.
* Iconic items may be used multiple times, but Not at full capacity.
* Iconic items don't have attribute words. They are already great in so many ways.
What do you other alpha-pdf readers or playtesters think?
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Spelutvecklare, skribent, och Fria Ligan hang-around. (Det bara blev så.)
 
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Tomas
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Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Mon 02 Jan 2017, 19:44

Great thought and feedback, thanks. We will tweak the rules for items a bit, so we will consider the ideas here. :)
Fria Ligan
 
Vargtass
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Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Mon 02 Jan 2017, 20:11

Feedback on the new skill and Type system in the Swedish version of the rules.

After reading the Swedish version of the rules, and after discussing with my players from the test session we had, we want to make the following comments.

Our preferred suggested systems for Types, skills and iconic abilities is described in my posts above (page 8). However, we feel that our proposal comes with different priorities.

1. We appreciate the idea of Key skills. We strongly recommend to use four skills per Type instead of three. This makes it possible to make different skill selections with your best skills within a Type, even if you max out on three.

2. We prefer to keep the Key attribute, but it is not as important as the number of Key skills. We think this is a good way to give additional weight to the choice of Type.

3. We have suggested a system of iconic abilities, that we feel further individualizes the Kid's Type, both within the Type (as a sort of subtype) but also compared to other Types. We understand that this may be a too big addition to the game at this stage, with limited playtesting possible, but would welcome it as a possible houserule, rules option, or future expansion.
 
ysarius
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Location: France

Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Tue 03 Jan 2017, 01:21

P44, below the grey box, bonus word I guess :
"This Item gives two bonus dice in a situation where
it can be used to help you to overcome Trouble. The
Iconic Item will not disappear or break whatever happens,
unless the you want it to."
 
ysarius
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Joined: Fri 16 Dec 2016, 02:06
Location: France

Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Tue 03 Jan 2017, 04:10

P54, end of page, something funny ? :
Allready told here : http://frialigan.se/forum/viewtopic.php ... 632#p23305
Last edited by ysarius on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 00:08, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Books
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Location: Adelaide

Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Tue 03 Jan 2017, 08:02

It is good that the Anchor drives the Kids on their own volition to the dull and unforgiving everyday life. As a GM, I prioritized the Mystery, so we only had the introductory scenes, the ending scenes, and two other everyday life scenes, of which one was an Anchor scene. Had we not been a bit short on time I would have prioritized differently. But there is a strong feeling anyway that everyday life will become a serious obstacle over a campaign unless the Kids balance it well with the Mysteries – especially parents will demand attention, timekeeping, school results, etc. 
I'll be running Summer Break and Killer Birds for my regular RPG group in the next week or so - I was just wondering whether you could expand a little on the everyday scenes you worked into your session, or other ideas you had for them? This is currently the biggest thing that I'm struggling with, coming up with interesting Everyday Life scenes.
 
Vargtass
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat 24 Dec 2016, 11:52

Re: The ALPHA PDF - questions, comments, errata

Tue 03 Jan 2017, 10:09

I'll be running Summer Break and Killer Birds for my regular RPG group in the next week or so - I was just wondering whether you could expand a little on the everyday scenes you worked into your session, or other ideas you had for them? This is currently the biggest thing that I'm struggling with, coming up with interesting Everyday Life scenes.
i took inspiration from either the Kid's problem or NPC relations when setting the introductory scenes. I only set the scenes, I did not know where they were going. In some, I had a goal to include something specific. I did not include the pigeons in any if the introductory scenes, I wanted the Kids to meet first. This was not successful, but worked out well anyway.
Examples: the weirdo had the problem "I am bullied at school". In the introductory questions, I had included how her problem had gotten worse recently, with the response that her main bullies, Vera and Cilla, wouldn't go on summer vacation as planned. The scene started with her mom worrying that she would stay in after both parents went to work, then the weirdo had to get out and get away. She succeded on a Move, geting ahead of her bullies on her bike by crossing over a grassy slope, eventually reaching the treehouse hideout.
Second scene was with the Rocker, who has the problem "My parents scream at each other all the time". At breakfast, she really just wanted to get away to her quite uncommitting summer-job at the music store in Stenhamra, so she suffered the arguing of her parents, where they usefher to get at esch other for a short while before she banged the door behind her. The parting words from the father said (directed at the mother) "It's just to be expected from your side of the family, just like your sister, disappearing on that love vacation ..." Her mother's sister is Lena Thelin.
Third scene was with the hick, and without any drama. He was sitting in a rowboat in the early motning with his NPC relation, an old fisherman. They did not talk much, but the fisherman made a point of pointing out an osprey, calling it a rare sight (one of the killer birds).
The fourth scene was with the troublemaker, who had called an older kid, the 15-year old singer in the rocker's band, to his shed because the singer owed him money. The troublemaker's ultimate goal is to become sort of a Godfather in Svartsjölandet, so when the singer tried refusing to pay, the troublemaker was forced to make an example of him. He failed the first Force, pushed, checking Angry, and succeeded, humiliating the singer by wrestlung him to the ground. He then decided to seek out his Anchor in Stenhamra to calm himself down, so the rocker and the troublemaker met up at the bus station where they heard pigeons talking. They decided it was strange but still went on the bus, the troublemaker in a very bad mood.
At about lunchtime, the hick met up with the weirdo at the treehouse. They also noticed strange-behaving pigeons, and when these flew north the Kids chased after.
Meanwhile, in Stenhamra, the troublemaker had a good meetimg with the school janitor at the library (Per Äng is his Anchor). Per Äng lent him "The Old Man and the Sea", with the words "Everyone says young boys should read Jack London. But this is Hemingway. This is better". The troublemaker also mentioned the strange birds, and Per Äng told him about the ornithologist. At lunchtime, when she heard about this, the rocker decided Mats Tingblad might be an old friend of the family, rolled two successes on contact, and it was so. She decided to clock out early from work, and the two returned to Kungsberga in time to meet the rest of the gang (and Majsan) at the treehouse, after the scene of the pigeon nest.
I'll write more on the rest later.
Last edited by Vargtass on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 12:06, edited 2 times in total.
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