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Quorlox
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Thematics of Willpower economy

Sun 22 Aug 2021, 10:19

I would like to better understand the desired role WP plays in FL. Is it intended to be a rare commodity that needs to be used only in critical situations? Is it supposed to be readily available for use whenever desired? Something else?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Thematics of Willpower economy

Sun 22 Aug 2021, 11:00

Willpower is your inner strength, you strengthen yourself by pushing yourself, not when you do something on routine. So that is there reason you get it when you push yourself (so much so you hurt yourself). The idea is that this is something that you can use every now and then, not all the time. A sorcerer for example is supposed to cast a spell or two when he really needs to, but if he is in combat, he will for the most part use a sword (like Gandalf).
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Quorlox
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Re: Thematics of Willpower economy

Sun 22 Aug 2021, 12:14

So if that's the desired thematic, it doesn't seem that difficult to fill one's WP track through foraging, scouting, etc. These are essential activities for survival, but the negative side-effects of pushing are less dire during those events. (I even read one post on the forums where somebody said they were using True Grit to generate a lot of WP.) There's a caution about "too many rolls", but does that mean the GM has to constantly adjudicate WP so that PCs don't get too much?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Thematics of Willpower economy

Sun 22 Aug 2021, 12:32

So if that's the desired thematic, it doesn't seem that difficult to fill one's WP track through foraging, scouting, etc. These are essential activities for survival, but the negative side-effects of pushing are less dire during those events. (I even read one post on the forums where somebody said they were using True Grit to generate a lot of WP.) There's a caution about "too many rolls", but does that mean the GM has to constantly adjudicate WP so that PCs don't get too much?
Some points
* A player only makes the skill rolls that the GM calls for, which comes to ...
* Don't roll to often (p.44). Just because the rules say roll for this and roll for that doesn't mean that you always have to. The rulebook doesn't know when the situation is dramatic, only you do. Sure a combat scene is always dramatic, but Leading the Way besides a river a nice summer day isn't perhaps so dramatic.
* You can't push a roll if more successes doesn't do anything. So you can't push a successful Make Camp roll, because there is no extra effects for additional sixes.

When it comes it is safe to push after a hunting scene because there will be no events. Well that is up to the GM to decide isn't it. Being on the same spot for long will attract things after all.
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Quorlox
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Re: Thematics of Willpower economy

Sun 22 Aug 2021, 13:08

So it seems like the GM does have to do a lot of managing in an effort to limit the amount of WP characters can get, which isn't my favorite way of GMing. Have any alternatives to the WP mechanic been proposed/published?
 
JohanR
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Re: Thematics of Willpower economy

Sun 22 Aug 2021, 16:43

Well I do two house rules for this:
- Willpower points move towards a threshold over time to limit player meta gaming, (to avoid having them always try to find ways to gain Willpower).
- Instead of penalizing failures out of combat, penalize pushing rolls.

Both can be found here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/35 ... dden-Lands (note that you can both preview and download for free)
 
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Quorlox
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Re: Thematics of Willpower economy

Sun 22 Aug 2021, 16:57

Well I do two house rules for this:
- Willpower points move towards a threshold over time to limit player meta gaming, (to avoid having them always try to find ways to gain Willpower).
- Instead of penalizing failures out of combat, penalize pushing rolls.

Both can be found here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/35 ... dden-Lands (note that you can both preview and download for free)
Good to know! That's on my DriveThruRPG Wish List. :D
 
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Konungr
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Re: Thematics of Willpower economy

Mon 23 Aug 2021, 01:03

There are several GMs who just don't allow pushing traveling rolls at all. The point of pushing a roll is that the person tries so hard that it could cause harm. A failed scouting roll isn't something the scouter is aware of. The very nature of failing to scout means you DON'T see something. So the player/character cannot push it. You can't push making camp. Failing a making camp roll doesn't mean the camp doesn't get made. It just means something else happens ALSO. So there is nothing to push for. The camp got made.

There is no micromanagement there. X rolls can be pushed. Y can't. Done.
 
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Quorlox
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Re: Thematics of Willpower economy

Mon 23 Aug 2021, 11:31

What do others think of pushing foraging/hunting/fishing rolls?

And in another post (which showed up when I googled Willpower on this forum), somebody mentioned using True Grit to generate a lot of WP; is that because the character gets Willpower for every pushed roll?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Thematics of Willpower economy

Mon 23 Aug 2021, 12:00

What do others think of pushing foraging/hunting/fishing rolls?

And in another post (which showed up when I googled Willpower on this forum), somebody mentioned using True Grit to generate a lot of WP; is that because the character gets Willpower for every pushed roll?
Regarding hunting/etc. I only let them roll for it if they really need to get food. If they don't need to get food, I just assume they got one success (so no roll). But if the players do roll, then I allow them to push, because there is something to gain with extra successes.

Regarding True Grit, the benefit that talent does is that you can push more than once for the cost of WP. How many WP you get is based on how many Banes (1s) that you have rolled when you have done the roll, so you can't get more WP this way. You have a higher chance of getting successes and banes if you push a lot of course, but if you use True Grit, you also pay WP, so that would be pointless.
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