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Re: Increasing Talent Costs

Posted: Thu 14 Nov 2019, 16:05
by Gaddeborg
I've been talking in the discord about how to put the brakes a little on PCs picking up talents. Figure I'd put it down here as well:

My idea is basically to increase talent rank xp cost by 1 for every new talent the PC requires to encourage specialization and to keep specialization somewhat special. Base cost would be 3xp.

So 1st-3rd talent is 3/6/9 as is default RAW.
4th talent is 4/8/12
5th talent is 5/10/15
6th talent is 6/12/18
etc.

New players could still work out their niche early on and feel like they're getting somewhere but as PC's get more experienced it's going to require more and more for them to continue to get and master new talents. I haven't yet put much thought into treating skills similarly because it seems that PC's currently favor buying talents over skill dice - plus skill dice are capped at 5 anyway and limited by successful use in a session.
I think this was a very good suggestion.

 I migth start with the cost of 5/10/15 for the first five talents, and then go on to 6/12/18 at the sixth, 7/14/21 for the seventh etc. I think talents are very powerful in the game, and defenitively worth more than 3/6/9. Progression RAW seems slightly too fast to hold up for a long campaign of 20+ sessions. 

Re: Increasing Talent Costs

Posted: Thu 14 Nov 2019, 19:21
by Ebrim
Yeah exactly, this is primarily a concern for longer campaigns. For a limited campaign RAW seems fine.

Re: Increasing Talent Costs

Posted: Wed 18 Dec 2019, 13:12
by mafusael
Cool talk here. Had the same problem. Heal it in my game like this:

buying a talent costs its rank * 5 XP
raising a skill costs its rank * 3 XP
old character gets +1 XP per session
the young one may take only 1 talent or skill per session
-2 to roll for damage/injury healing of old character
+2 to roll for damage/injury healing of young character

Re: Increasing Talent Costs

Posted: Fri 20 Dec 2019, 13:56
by EinBein
Interesting discussion. On first thought, I would link every talent with a fitting skill or other condition instead of changing advancement costs.

About 60 of the 71 talents (excl. kin talents) can be directly associated with one skill. In these cases, I would set the following preconditions for the talent ranks:
Rank 1 = skill 1
Rank 2 = skill 3
Rank 3 = skill 5

This slows down advancement and avoids odd character concepts with rank 3 in a survival talent with an actually low survival skill... only real professionals will be able to reach the highest rank of mastery.

Some of the talents, like Lucky, Dragonslayer, Berserker, Cold Blooded and Executioner require different conditions from my point of view, for example:
Lucky: having been broken 0|1|3 times without crippling or deadly crit
Dragonslayer: having fought a monster 1|3|5 times
Berserker: having raged 0|1|3 times
Cold Blooded: having performed Coup de Grace 1|3|5 times
Executioner: having broken an opponent as well as crippled/killed him via crit 0|1|3 times

These might be totally unbalanced in different playstyles though.

I have still issues with some profession talents, but this will be solvable...

What do you think?

Re: Increasing Talent Costs

Posted: Fri 20 Dec 2019, 20:04
by Eldhierta
Interesting discussion. On first thought, I would link every talent with a fitting skill or other condition instead of changing advancement costs.

About 60 of the 71 talents (excl. kin talents) can be directly associated with one skill. In these cases, I would set the following preconditions for the talent ranks:
Rank 1 = skill 1
Rank 2 = skill 3
Rank 3 = skill 5

This slows down advancement and avoids odd character concepts with rank 3 in a survival talent with an actually low survival skill... only real professionals will be able to reach the highest rank of mastery.

Some of the talents, like Lucky, Dragonslayer, Berserker, Cold Blooded and Executioner require different conditions from my point of view, for example:
Lucky: having been broken 0|1|3 times without crippling or deadly crit
Dragonslayer: having fought a monster 1|3|5 times
Berserker: having raged 0|1|3 times
Cold Blooded: having performed Coup de Grace 1|3|5 times
Executioner: having broken an opponent as well as crippled/killed him via crit 0|1|3 times

These might be totally unbalanced in different playstyles though.

I have still issues with some profession talents, but this will be solvable...

What do you think?
Really like this approach. Makes a lot of sense for talents to be bound to skillprogression/feats/events. Thumbs up!

Re: Increasing Talent Costs

Posted: Fri 20 Dec 2019, 23:59
by Mr Oldtimer
Me too. I will take this to my note book and take it up with my players soon.

Re: Increasing Talent Costs

Posted: Sat 21 Dec 2019, 03:53
by mafusael
Interesting discussion. On first thought, I would link every talent with a fitting skill or other condition instead of changing advancement costs.

About 60 of the 71 talents (excl. kin talents) can be directly associated with one skill. In these cases, I would set the following preconditions for the talent ranks:
Rank 1 = skill 1
Rank 2 = skill 3
Rank 3 = skill 5

This slows down advancement and avoids odd character concepts with rank 3 in a survival talent with an actually low survival skill... only real professionals will be able to reach the highest rank of mastery.

Some of the talents, like Lucky, Dragonslayer, Berserker, Cold Blooded and Executioner require different conditions from my point of view, for example:
Lucky: having been broken 0|1|3 times without crippling or deadly crit
Dragonslayer: having fought a monster 1|3|5 times
Berserker: having raged 0|1|3 times
Cold Blooded: having performed Coup de Grace 1|3|5 times
Executioner: having broken an opponent as well as crippled/killed him via crit 0|1|3 times

These might be totally unbalanced in different playstyles though.

I have still issues with some profession talents, but this will be solvable...

What do you think?
I like your idea. Maybe it can be unbalanced but who cares? ;) it really make sense in game to rise skills!

Re: Increasing Talent Costs

Posted: Sat 28 Dec 2019, 18:31
by Jimorie
My idea is basically to increase talent rank xp cost by 1 for every new talent the PC requires to encourage specialization and to keep specialization somewhat special. Base cost would be 3xp.

So 1st-3rd talent is 3/6/9 as is default RAW.
4th talent is 4/8/12
5th talent is 5/10/15
6th talent is 6/12/18
etc.
I agree that talents seem undercosted, and the suggestion in the original post makes sense.
My one gripe with that solution is that it then matters in which order you learn your talents. Learning a talent early but never putting more than one rank in it is potentially a waste, if you plan on learning and advancing other talents beyond rank 1 after that.
I would consider adding another rule here, saying that you could swap the position of two talents with equal rank, if you want to.