Grimmshade
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Fri 18 Jun 2021, 05:36

Good points about Burke smuggling!
And I was confused when I saw the part about the Company owning the Marines, as I thought the Company used it's own security and the Marines were strictly the US military. (But, I'm definitely not an Alien lore expert.)

I do find most of the stuff in the books excellent, but I'm willing to change anything that doesn't feel right. I may make the ICC much less in the pocket of WY specifically.
 
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_ArthurDallas_
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Fri 18 Jun 2021, 16:04

That's a very good point. Why a Coporal can decide to nuke when an offical company representative says no ahah! did'nt thought of that one and you're right. I would say that yes they (WY) run ICC but theirs strings (guys) are not everywhere (that's why they can't cover everything). I would suggest that ICC Quarantine Port or stations are run by a USCMC division. Everyone known that USCMC have tension with WY so it's not an easy win when a WY representative want to bring something "in".
 
S.M
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Sat 19 Jun 2021, 00:47

On the upside, having it in an RPG means the GM and/ or players are free to ignore the stuff they don't like.

However I suspect baseless garbage like this will get picked up by other media if they use the RPG as a sourcebook, rather than the films.

And ultimately this whole 'WY owns and runs everything', beyond having no basis in the source material, is just creatively boring.
 
Grimmshade
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Sat 19 Jun 2021, 01:02

I agree that it is creatively boring. It also didn't make a lot of sense to me when I read it (about the ICC). It would be pretty obvious pretty fast that something was wrong with the whole set up when WY started getting a pass all the time.
 
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ExileInParadise
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Sat 19 Jun 2021, 03:40

Why would Burke need to smuggle a dangerous organism through ICC quarantine if the Company effectively owns the ICC? It's like how the new Colonial Marines book says the Company funds the marines; yet the mission to LV-426 was under military jurisdiction and a corporal could nuke a colony over protestations of a Company rep.
One way to rectify it is that Ripley's knowledge of the ICC and its quarantine was almost six decades out of date.
Another thing is that just because WY and ICC are cozy on everything - stuff like dangerous organisms from the colonies might one of the clear lines of demarcation or disagreement.
So... 90% of the time, WY gets what they want - but that other 10% gets "interesting"
Plus, Burke wanted to keep info as controlled as possible and even said so
"If I made a big deal out of it - everyone steps in and there's no exclusives for anyone."
So, smuggling it in past ICC minimizes the amount of "shares" and "graft" involved...

For LV-426: "The company co-financed that colony with Colonial Administration" ~ Burke on Gateway
So, Acheron was more of a Joint Venture which always comes with a ton of weird politics and loopholes and such.
And, those protestations were after same said marines were told they were candidates for space jettison in the quest for some skeezy corporate exclusive... that also happened to traumatically kick their assets to the curb just hours before.
17 weeks in hyperspace at military speed still means a court martial is months away - if ever.
I can see the "local command authority reacted to a clear and present danger" in the after action report even if there was a court martial.

And finally - if ICC had evidence (like a marine debrief) of stuff WY was doing under cover of darkness... well that might alter the equation too.
Burke seems to have had enough snap to keep plausible deniability in mind to "save the company reputation impact"

So, lots of ways to play it...
We live, as we dream -- alone. ~ Joseph Conrad
 
Grimmshade
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Sat 19 Jun 2021, 03:57

Good points!
I've also seen mention somewhere that the corporation is so huge that one part often doesn't know what another part is doing.
 
DeusXLondon
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Sat 26 Jun 2021, 09:02

Great thread, everyone!

My reading of the RPG and CM handbook(still in progress) is that CM handbook explicitly states the WY influence over the colonial marines is a new thing, and strongly impli older marines resist it, with support from the current SecDef.

Remember marine organisation's older grunts ages and birth dates are going to be all over the map with decades of accumulated Cryo time, look how young Gen Vaughn's pic is..(which must make keeping up with current doctrine and rules a patchwork nightmare). Plus most marines aren't from the core systems, so their view of WY is going to be very variable.

DX
 
Grimmshade
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Sat 26 Jun 2021, 16:05

Good points!
There's just no way WY has complete control over ICC and the Marines, or they would just auto-win all corporate conflicts. More like they have some influence with funding, etc.
(I need to read the new CM book, but I'm currently reading Chariots and Destroyer)
 
Jonsey
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Mon 09 Aug 2021, 15:22

On the upside, having it in an RPG means the GM and/ or players are free to ignore the stuff they don't like.

However I suspect baseless garbage like this will get picked up by other media if they use the RPG as a sourcebook, rather than the films.

And ultimately this whole 'WY owns and runs everything', beyond having no basis in the source material, is just creatively boring.

Amen...!

Imo this whole WY exploitation border itself to; -If the franchise are capable of possibly invent something else, or at least something that don’t include WY? Theme is overused to a point of being repulsive in over shadowing original creations.

ICC and WY are RPG exploitation fluff because the original films didn’t throw out enough usable bread crumbs. WY has become something of a Alien signature and is already heavily embedded in the mind of the alien community due to the over-exploitation.
Company conspiracy was a signature in the first movie although the line between company SOP and conspiracy is a fine line exploring scripts and plot.
In the second movie it was personal motives of a WY employee and has noting to do with the company.

As I understand that the theme of modern ‘conspiratism’ in the US (and half of the internet sic.) had its roots in the tumultuous 1960’s stemming from the JFK assassination and a heavily drinking president (Nixon) that feeds on fear of the unseen, but one would have to do a lot of “begging questions” and confirmation biases to get to where WY is today if only relying on the second film.

By contrast A3 was a huge shake n’ bake production and catastrophe in movie history. It did exploit the idea fully something that made W(h)Y and bio-weapons a concept benchmark. Though its still regarded much as “?” in more artistic Alien circles, that is if seen as a sequel at all, and thus the first spin offs in the series. Also it killed off the original franchise of the original four part Ripley’s anthology [?] (A3 Hicks story, A4 Ripleys return) that was never to be.

This said the Alien company big brother theme was however supported and in a way the main objective of the producers (Giler/Hill - that do have a respectable share in what we all love) who was to include WY as a main (antagonist) actor in the future Aliens 3 and 4 (as described above, though participation in the 4th is unclear).

Cameron himself an avid perceiver in that the corporation whose whole organism is based on the profit of capitalism working the profit as a tool of war competing against other corporations something that cost human life, is not avoiding the big brother concept either (though not affirming the future exploitation of WY by producers). A bit can be observed in e.g. Avatar. A film that by script I see as a metaphor for his own extension of the Aliens universe (there are lots of parallels). However this latter WY “big brother” development stage is not presented in the second film, but unfortunately would in a sequel similar as seen by the “failed” A3 attempt.

The ICC issue was just a glimpse of the (US/UA) bureaucratic colonization system showing an investigation hearing deciding if officer Ripley was responsible for the demise of some millions, insured or not. Nothing else.

Now problems are that any public product that involves economy is forced by public demand to oblige even if public demand is based on a misconception or exploitations. Any one new to a source of experience wants to feel the kick again, franchise or not.
As everything else The Alien franchise just transmutes into something new for each iteration of exploitation like Bram Strokers Dracula ‘Vampire’ concept or …Star Wars(?) and I believe FL has done the best job to date to bundle most of it up. The deepest horror of an Alien/s conservatists is when Disney or whoever, wants to spawn [spam] a new generation of fans and makes a re-make, something that possibly is un-avoidable. Then we’re all in a world of s***.

In my personal case I just cross over parts that don’t fit my vision or the story development concept as far as Aliens -86. For me WY is just like any other of several dozens of companies/corporations participating in the fronteer colonisation process. Yes, they are briefly seen in my campaign contracted by the ECA for some job but nothing more.
 
Jonsey
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Re: Rivals over a colony/planet?

Tue 10 Aug 2021, 17:33

I might as well add that the WY “influence” over Colonial marines stems from the Colonial Marines Technical Manual (mid 90’s) were Brimmicombe-Wood (author) hints in a wrap around story of a WY conspiracy, seemingly trying to explain/mystify/rectify the failure of the Marine expedition on LV-426. Apparently someone of the RPG staff thought it was a cool idea and it grew into ending up on first stage, which imo is a really large step outside original creations, possibly to a degree of compromising the entire setting and severing the relationship with the films. However as seen, the RPG is already standing on its own legs as a separate entity to the films and chooses its own path.

The manual itself was the first major attempt of a Aliens exploitation and was well received (we didn’t have much back then and it has a good vibe around it). Wood later claimed that he would have done some things a little bit differently today (not specifying detail but I guess from experience that with age ones earlier creations appears in a bit different light).

Sorry for drifting from subject.

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