Oddball_E8
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Posts: 157
Joined: Sat 14 May 2016, 20:13

Are shotguns useless?

Mon 17 Aug 2020, 05:00

I mean, they do 3 base damage and you get +2 bonus... BUT... they also have the Armour doubled special...

So... shooting at any fully grown alien, you'll need to do a minimum of 17 damage to even do the slightest of damage... and 21 to kill one outright. And that's the weakest one. To kill a Stalker, you'll have to do 26 damage in one go. Or a t least 21 for 6 shots in a row...

That seems a bit less effective than what we see in the movies.

I mean... say you've got someone who's well trained... a marine... Say you've got 4 agility and 5 ranged.
That's 9 dice.
And you've got a bonus of 2 for the shotgun.
That's 11 dice.

Say you roll all 11 6's... that's 11 damage, plus the base damage of 3.

You can do 14 damage.

Won't even scratch the skin of a fully grown alien.

Am I missing something here?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Are shotguns useless?

Mon 17 Aug 2020, 06:03

If someone, wearing an M3 Personal Armor (Armor Rating 6) is shoot by a pulse rifle. You normally roll about 1 sixes with 6d6. A pulse rifle does 2 damage so one damage will go through.If the same someone is shot by a shotgun, you roll 12d6 in the armor roll instead of 6d6. You probably roll 2 sixes with that. A shotgun does 3 damage, so one damage will go through here as well.

You roll many more dice against the shotgun, so you can potentially remove a lot of more damage, that is true, but the shotgun have more damage and also extra bonus to hit. Against an unarmored foe, it is gold of course.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
Attackmack
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 03:22

Re: Are shotguns useless?

Mon 17 Aug 2020, 07:57

I mean, they do 3 base damage and you get +2 bonus... BUT... they also have the Armour doubled special...

So... shooting at any fully grown alien, you'll need to do a minimum of 17 damage to even do the slightest of damage... and 21 to kill one outright. And that's the weakest one. To kill a Stalker, you'll have to do 26 damage in one go. Or a t least 21 for 6 shots in a row...

That seems a bit less effective than what we see in the movies.

I mean... say you've got someone who's well trained... a marine... Say you've got 4 agility and 5 ranged.
That's 9 dice.
And you've got a bonus of 2 for the shotgun.
That's 11 dice.

Say you roll all 11 6's... that's 11 damage, plus the base damage of 3.

You can do 14 damage.

Won't even scratch the skin of a fully grown alien.

Am I missing something here?

Sounds like you assume armor automatically subtracts damage which it doesnt. Armor allows you to roll a number of dice and only for the 6s rolled you subtract damage so while the potential is high, the average is not. I recall theres been a thread around here discussing just how ineffective armor is and if it should have been buffed or not. Might have been another game using the same system, Im not sure.

But yeah, against well armored enemies a shotgun is not at its best.
 
Oddball_E8
Topic Author
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat 14 May 2016, 20:13

Re: Are shotguns useless?

Tue 18 Aug 2020, 06:03

I mean, they do 3 base damage and you get +2 bonus... BUT... they also have the Armour doubled special...

So... shooting at any fully grown alien, you'll need to do a minimum of 17 damage to even do the slightest of damage... and 21 to kill one outright. And that's the weakest one. To kill a Stalker, you'll have to do 26 damage in one go. Or a t least 21 for 6 shots in a row...

That seems a bit less effective than what we see in the movies.

I mean... say you've got someone who's well trained... a marine... Say you've got 4 agility and 5 ranged.
That's 9 dice.
And you've got a bonus of 2 for the shotgun.
That's 11 dice.

Say you roll all 11 6's... that's 11 damage, plus the base damage of 3.

You can do 14 damage.

Won't even scratch the skin of a fully grown alien.

Am I missing something here?

Sounds like you assume armor automatically subtracts damage which it doesnt. Armor allows you to roll a number of dice and only for the 6s rolled you subtract damage so while the potential is high, the average is not. I recall theres been a thread around here discussing just how ineffective armor is and if it should have been buffed or not. Might have been another game using the same system, Im not sure.

But yeah, against well armored enemies a shotgun is not at its best.
Holy shit, you're right!

Hahaha... well I've only run the game twice so far so I'm still learning.

That said, it's still 11 dice vs 20 dice in the above example. Still seems very useless.

But yeah... I'll hold off on my judgement on this until I've run HLD one more time.
 
Attackmack
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 03:22

Re: Are shotguns useless?

Tue 18 Aug 2020, 16:30

I mean, they do 3 base damage and you get +2 bonus... BUT... they also have the Armour doubled special...

So... shooting at any fully grown alien, you'll need to do a minimum of 17 damage to even do the slightest of damage... and 21 to kill one outright. And that's the weakest one. To kill a Stalker, you'll have to do 26 damage in one go. Or a t least 21 for 6 shots in a row...

That seems a bit less effective than what we see in the movies.

I mean... say you've got someone who's well trained... a marine... Say you've got 4 agility and 5 ranged.
That's 9 dice.
And you've got a bonus of 2 for the shotgun.
That's 11 dice.

Say you roll all 11 6's... that's 11 damage, plus the base damage of 3.

You can do 14 damage.

Won't even scratch the skin of a fully grown alien.

Am I missing something here?

Sounds like you assume armor automatically subtracts damage which it doesnt. Armor allows you to roll a number of dice and only for the 6s rolled you subtract damage so while the potential is high, the average is not. I recall theres been a thread around here discussing just how ineffective armor is and if it should have been buffed or not. Might have been another game using the same system, Im not sure.

But yeah, against well armored enemies a shotgun is not at its best.
Holy shit, you're right!

Hahaha... well I've only run the game twice so far so I'm still learning.

That said, it's still 11 dice vs 20 dice in the above example. Still seems very useless.

But yeah... I'll hold off on my judgement on this until I've run HLD one more time.
Your not wrong, shotguns against anything armored (including xenomorphs) is not effective. You will want something with armor penetration and uranium tipped bullets.

But against anything that ISNT armored, they will be truly horrible! Xenos and military aside, most people wont wear any real armor and will be very receptible to shotgun persuasion :D

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