Jonbertsch
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Facehugger combat questoin

Mon 09 Dec 2019, 01:03

If a PC is hit with the Facehuggers attack FACE GRAPPLE and the pc fails the opposed roll it says the player will suffer THE FINAL EMBRACE on the facehuggers next initiative but till then are they considered to be GRAPPLED? What about someone else trying to help? No rules as written for friendly fire but I cannot imagine someone trying to take a shot at a facehugger that is "on" someone without a very real risk of friendly fire...
 
Jonbertsch
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Re: Facehugger combat questoin

Mon 09 Dec 2019, 01:18

Thinking this thru the best way I can see for the PC is to try and SHOVE the facehugger away and then attack it. Were the PC to try and attack at close range the very real risk of acid damage pops up, same goes for another pc damaging it, they could use fire but then the PC is now on fire... God I love this game.
 
wendal
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Re: Facehugger combat questoin

Mon 09 Dec 2019, 02:25

You could work it like normal attack, the face hugger has someone grappled awaiting final embrace on its next initiative. Another character on his turn, before the face hugger's turn can attack it as normal for damage, but to get the thing off you would need extra success or to push the roll. Acid splash on those in range as standard, the side effect for any sharps or firearms used, unless they decide to use blunt objects or to grapple the thing off. A success could even mean they stall the face huggers final embrace for another turn, as the two characters struggle with the creature trying to remove it. 

Or use the 'Group roll' rules in the book they are fine as is. The system is so nice to work with, it's refreshing.
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aramis
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Re: Facehugger combat questoin

Mon 09 Dec 2019, 02:50

Being grappled means the only thing the targeted character can attempt is to break the grapple.
One cannot grapple xenomorphs, but I'd say someone else should be able to attempt the break grapple...  We see attempts (that fail) in the films.
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Jonbertsch
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Re: Facehugger combat questoin

Mon 09 Dec 2019, 03:06

I went back thru the grappling section, it says the xenos can grab you and other nasty things and to defer to the xenos attack, I read that as they they cannot grapple in the traditional sense as they do not perform normal attacks. I'm running some solo combat scenarios before my debut next week with this game, and I ruled that after the facehuggers face grapple attack that the xeno and PC were simply engaged, facehugger lashing out while the PC tries their best to hold them off. That attack was the result of a sneak attack by the facehugger so drawing initiative was next up, the two remaining PCs got lower than the xeno and they ended up swapping their initiatives so that the one engaged with the facehugger could act first, he first  used a fast action to shove the facehugger away to short range then a slow action to hit it with an incinerator. That broke the xeno who then, while on fire leapt back onto the PC for a second before dropping dead(one stress point for that one!). I wonder if I should have the PC take some fire damage as well?  :twisted:
 
EzMad
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Re: Facehugger combat questoin

Mon 09 Dec 2019, 17:14

In Aliens we see Ripley engaged by the facehugger and manages to throw it off. Then, after trying to crawl away, she is engaged again and this time is grappled by it. With the aid of Hicks, Gorman and Vasquez, she is freed of the facehugger.
I would say that others can aid in a grapple.
As for shooting into combat, maybe the character needs to fail an empathy roll first. If they fail then they can shoot away! If they pass they can still shoot but with a -2 penalty as they are trying not to hit their friend.
Last edited by EzMad on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 21:17, edited 1 time in total.
 
Riggswolfe
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Re: Facehugger combat questoin

Mon 09 Dec 2019, 18:19

Being grappled means the only thing the targeted character can attempt is to break the grapple.
One cannot grapple xenomorphs, but I'd say someone else should be able to attempt the break grapple...  We see attempts (that fail) in the films.
I think it's safe to assume a PC can grapple (or resist a grapple) with a face hugger. I always assumed the rules saying one cannot grapple a Xenos refers to the full grown version. A face hugger and a chestburster are small enough that they can be grappled. We actually see this in Aliens as someone else pointed out when Ripley holds the Facebugger back from her face. I'd play that scene as an opposed grapple test. Then when Hicks and Vasquez pull it off that's some kind of assist on the grapple check. 

So in the situation the OP mentions, the PC has until the Facehuggers next action to beat it in a grapple check. Should they fail, that's pretty much the end for that character.
 
Jonbertsch
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Re: Facehugger combat questoin

Mon 09 Dec 2019, 22:56

Being grappled means the only thing the targeted character can attempt is to break the grapple.
One cannot grapple xenomorphs, but I'd say someone else should be able to attempt the break grapple...  We see attempts (that fail) in the films.
I think it's safe to assume a PC can grapple (or resist a grapple) with a face hugger. I always assumed the rules saying one cannot grapple a Xenos refers to the full grown version. A face hugger and a chestburster are small enough that they can be grappled. We actually see this in Aliens as someone else pointed out when Ripley holds the Facebugger back from her face. I'd play that scene as an opposed grapple test. Then when Hicks and Vasquez pull it off that's some kind of assist on the grapple check. 

So in the situation the OP mentions, the PC has until the Facehuggers next action to beat it in a grapple check. Should they fail, that's pretty much the end for that character.
I ruled something similar. The PC used a SHOVE action to throw it away and out of engaged range.
 
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aramis
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Re: Facehugger combat questoin

Tue 10 Dec 2019, 00:23

Being grappled means the only thing the targeted character can attempt is to break the grapple.
One cannot grapple xenomorphs, but I'd say someone else should be able to attempt the break grapple...  We see attempts (that fail) in the films.
I think it's safe to assume a PC can grapple (or resist a grapple) with a face hugger. I always assumed the rules saying one cannot grapple a Xenos refers to the full grown version. A face hugger and a chestburster are small enough that they can be grappled. We actually see this in Aliens as someone else pointed out when Ripley holds the Facebugger back from her face. I'd play that scene as an opposed grapple test. Then when Hicks and Vasquez pull it off that's some kind of assist on the grapple check. 

So in the situation the OP mentions, the PC has until the Facehuggers next action to beat it in a grapple check. Should they fail, that's pretty much the end for that character.
I think you're failing to grasp the mechanical meaning of grappled.
The common non-game meaning is that you can grab them. That's all well and good, but that's also irrelevant to what the mechanics mean.
The mechanical meaning of grappled is "you can only resist grapple." Which also means you cannot attack while grappled. You cannot flee while grappled. You cannot dodge while grappled
The facehugger cannot be prevented from attacking by grabbing it. It's got too many  ways to make with the hurt.
The facehugger is able to wriggle away pretty well; you're not going to inconvenience it on dodging unless you have a very specific grip on it; that would seem to be using an unarmed attack to aid one's own or someone else's attack.
The facehugger is also likely able to escape no matter how you grabbed it. 
Therefore, grabbing it is not mechanically represented by the Grapple action and inflicting the grappled condition. It's assisting, or unarmed attacking with a second success to provide a benefit against it, or giving it a shove.
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Riggswolfe
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Re: Facehugger combat questoin

Tue 10 Dec 2019, 17:06

I'm not misunderstanding at all. If you manage to grapple it, it cannot attack until it breaks the grapple. If you are grappled by it and resist the grapple, you are no longer "grabbed" by it.

We see Ripley do this. The first time it attacks her, she basically throws it away then it skitters back and attacks again. Now, her action could also be interpreted as an unarmed shove attack so it's arguable what that is first exchange is. I actually lean towards unarmed to be honest.

The second time, it wraps its tail around her throat but it is unable to implant her with an embryo because she gets her arms in the way and holds it off long enough for the others to get in and help. If that's not an example of using grapple to keep it from attacking I don't know what is.

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