APOLLO
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Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Fri 27 Dec 2019, 18:05

[/quote]

Well the Corvus is specifically a salvage vessel, so you might be on to something.
[/quote]

Not all Class G ships are salvage ships. They will still suffer from crap pay for missions. Besides it’s limiting on jobs if every mission I have to salvage something to make it worth it.
 
sathyr
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Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Fri 27 Dec 2019, 22:48

Not all Class G ships are salvage ships. They will still suffer from crap pay for missions. Besides it’s limiting on jobs if every mission I have to salvage something to make it worth it.
I feel like at that point your concern is that a hammer doesn't make a good power drill.

The Corvus is a salvage vessel; it makes sense that the majority of its income would come from salvage jobs. No, not every G-class is a salvage vessel... but it's reasonable to assume that based on the "typical" G-class stats listed, most vessels in that category are going to be short-range and unlikely to be cargo haulers.

Counterpoint: All the examples of cargo haulers we have are larger than G-class, with bigger holds and faster FTL speeds. It might be reasonable to conclude that G-classes aren't optimal hauling vessels at all. Perhaps the ship (or class) isn't poorly designed, it's just designed to fill a different role. After all, an EEV is a vehicle that fills an essential role, but it would make a terrible cargo hauler OR salvage vessel :P
 
APOLLO
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Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Fri 27 Dec 2019, 23:49

Not really. My concern that the job table is inadequate to properly fund the frontier career if you want to own your ship. If we assume the average job is 27k like previously posted, the Corvus requires 28k a month to pay back the 2% of it’s total value. It’s going to take 40 days just for the transit back and fourth to a nearby system 1 parsec away.

If there’s salvage cool, no worries. But it’s one of many missions you can roll, so there’s no guarantee of salvage.

To top it off there’s no rules about selling scrap or components anyway.
 
sathyr
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Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Sat 28 Dec 2019, 01:19

Not really. My concern that the job table is inadequate to properly fund the frontier career if you want to own your ship. If we assume the average job is 27k like previously posted, the Corvus requires 28k a month to pay back the 2% of it’s total value. It’s going to take 40 days just for the transit back and fourth to a nearby system 1 parsec away.

If there’s salvage cool, no worries. But it’s one of many missions you can roll, so there’s no guarantee of salvage.

To top it off there’s no rules about selling scrap or components anyway.
And I'm saying the Corvus isn't designed to be a long hauler. That's the Bison. The Corvus can make a hefty profit running jobs in-system, where it is not hindered by its slow FTL speed. There's no hard limit to the number of in-system jobs you can take in a month - it's certainly going to be higher than an average of 1. That still leaves room for taking high risk long distance jobs of opportunity - say, discovering a flight recorder of a lost ship and following it back to the source in pursuit of some juicy salvage that TOTALLY isn't the home of space monsters ;)
 
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aramis
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Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Sat 28 Dec 2019, 02:43

Not really. My concern that the job table is inadequate to properly fund the frontier career if you want to own your ship. If we assume the average job is 27k like previously posted, the Corvus requires 28k a month to pay back the 2% of it’s total value. It’s going to take 40 days just for the transit back and fourth to a nearby system 1 parsec away.

If there’s salvage cool, no worries. But it’s one of many missions you can roll, so there’s no guarantee of salvage.

To top it off there’s no rules about selling scrap or components anyway.
And I'm saying the Corvus isn't designed to be a long hauler. That's the Bison. The Corvus can make a hefty profit running jobs in-system, where it is not hindered by its slow FTL speed. There's no hard limit to the number of in-system jobs you can take in a month - it's certainly going to be higher than an average of 1. That still leaves room for taking high risk long distance jobs of opportunity - say, discovering a flight recorder of a lost ship and following it back to the source in pursuit of some juicy salvage that TOTALLY isn't the home of space monsters ;)
In system jobs aren't that common in the job generator... 11/36. the odds of two in the same system outside the core? 121/1296 or about 9.34%. 3 in same? under 0.02%  When you get to bigger places with 2-3 jobs, it's not quite as bad...
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sathyr
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu 05 Dec 2019, 08:36

Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Sat 28 Dec 2019, 07:43

Not really. My concern that the job table is inadequate to properly fund the frontier career if you want to own your ship. If we assume the average job is 27k like previously posted, the Corvus requires 28k a month to pay back the 2% of it’s total value. It’s going to take 40 days just for the transit back and fourth to a nearby system 1 parsec away.

If there’s salvage cool, no worries. But it’s one of many missions you can roll, so there’s no guarantee of salvage.

To top it off there’s no rules about selling scrap or components anyway.
And I'm saying the Corvus isn't designed to be a long hauler. That's the Bison. The Corvus can make a hefty profit running jobs in-system, where it is not hindered by its slow FTL speed. There's no hard limit to the number of in-system jobs you can take in a month - it's certainly going to be higher than an average of 1. That still leaves room for taking high risk long distance jobs of opportunity - say, discovering a flight recorder of a lost ship and following it back to the source in pursuit of some juicy salvage that TOTALLY isn't the home of space monsters ;)
In system jobs aren't that common in the job generator... 11/36. the odds of two in the same system outside the core? 121/1296 or about 9.34%. 3 in same? under 0.02%  When you get to bigger places with 2-3 jobs, it's not quite as bad...
Notice though that there's no detail on how often that list refreshes, or how many rolls you should make per system. It's left up to the GM. It's probably reasonable to assume that as time passes, new jobs become available and old jobs become unavailable.

And that makes sense, because it's there as a tool, not as a *rule*. It's there to help GMs fill space or build inspiration. I don't think it's broken that the smallest and slowest ship has a hard time turning a consistent profit using the job generator as their sole means of income, because I don't think that's the intended purpose of the ship *or* the generator.
 
Lawdog1700
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Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Sat 28 Dec 2019, 10:05

Hi all,

I just want to see if my understanding of the economics system is in line with everyone else’s understanding. My group will be working as the crew of a Bison, employed by our friends at Weyland Yutani.

I would assume that means that their base pay is all they receive for their work. The Company absorbs the “Base Rewards” fro the job chart, correct? Or, do they get a portion of the Base Rewards as a “share” from the goods delivered. We don’t want to get too far into the economics system until we get the Space Truckers expansion/sourcebook from FL.

Thanks for any input or ideas.
 
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aramis
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Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Sun 29 Dec 2019, 11:06



And I'm saying the Corvus isn't designed to be a long hauler. That's the Bison. The Corvus can make a hefty profit running jobs in-system, where it is not hindered by its slow FTL speed. There's no hard limit to the number of in-system jobs you can take in a month - it's certainly going to be higher than an average of 1. That still leaves room for taking high risk long distance jobs of opportunity - say, discovering a flight recorder of a lost ship and following it back to the source in pursuit of some juicy salvage that TOTALLY isn't the home of space monsters ;)
In system jobs aren't that common in the job generator... 11/36. the odds of two in the same system outside the core? 121/1296 or about 9.34%. 3 in same? under 0.02%  When you get to bigger places with 2-3 jobs, it's not quite as bad...
Notice though that there's no detail on how often that list refreshes, or how many rolls you should make per system. It's left up to the GM.  It's probably reasonable to assume that as time passes, new jobs become available and old jobs become unavailable.
There is a job rolls per colony limit; it's 1 for startup colonies (<180 people). It's 1d301 for the mid size, and 1d3 for the largest. 
Given the incomplete nature of the system generation rules... specifically, the lack of identification of number of major moons (self-rounding or larger... roughly 1000 km diameter for rocky, half that for icy¹), the lack of orbital distance generation...it seems very much Travellereque "Only the mainworld usually matters" ...
There are a lot of little limits buried in related places, but not restated nor referenced in the most obvious use.
¹: Astronomy Magazine's Website. http://www.astronomy.com/magazine/ask-a ... cal-bodies
—————————————————————————
Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...
 
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aramis
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Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Sun 29 Dec 2019, 11:36

Hi all,

I just want to see if my understanding of the economics system is in line with everyone else’s understanding.  My group will be working as the crew of a Bison, employed by our friends at Weyland Yutani.

I would assume that means that their base pay is all they receive for their work.  The Company absorbs the “Base Rewards” fro the job chart, correct?  Or, do they get a portion of the Base Rewards as a “share” from the goods delivered.  We don’t want to get too far into the economics system until we get the Space Truckers expansion/sourcebook from FL.

Thanks for any input or ideas.
It looks like the pay is the "after fuel expenses and routine maintenance supplies," as that's the amount specified as the reward, and is used for all three modes. 

There are two submodes for space truckers, but only one is really discussed: Leased submode (vs hire-ons). If the ship is leased, it's pretty clear that they get all the pay, and have to save up for the annual owed payment. And the leaseholder probably should be paying the rest of the party... 

What I'd do if my players opted for "hireling only mode" is use only the variable portion( the 2-4 dice) assuming on time delivery, and the additional reward would still go there. And players wouldn't get a choice which mission, even if on a larger colony; they do the mission.

Note also: Colonial Marines mode also seems to have two submodes: Mercs vs Active Duty. I'd do it exactly the same way. 
—————————————————————————
Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...
 
sathyr
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu 05 Dec 2019, 08:36

Re: Mission Generator and economics of ships

Sun 29 Dec 2019, 22:01


In system jobs aren't that common in the job generator... 11/36. the odds of two in the same system outside the core? 121/1296 or about 9.34%. 3 in same? under 0.02%  When you get to bigger places with 2-3 jobs, it's not quite as bad...
Notice though that there's no detail on how often that list refreshes, or how many rolls you should make per system. It's left up to the GM.  It's probably reasonable to assume that as time passes, new jobs become available and old jobs become unavailable.
There is a job rolls per colony limit; it's 1 for startup colonies (<180 people). It's 1d301 for the mid size, and 1d3 for the largest. 
Given the incomplete nature of the system generation rules... specifically, the lack of identification of number of major moons (self-rounding or larger... roughly 1000 km diameter for rocky, half that for icy¹), the lack of orbital distance generation...it seems very much Travellereque "Only the mainworld usually matters" ...
There are a lot of little limits buried in related places, but not restated nor referenced in the most obvious use.
¹: Astronomy Magazine's Website. http://www.astronomy.com/magazine/ask-a ... cal-bodies
That's not a Jobs table, that's a Colony Mission table. It doesn't determine how many jobs are available, it determines the purpose of the colony ie. Research & Terraforming, as determined by the very next table (Colony Mission)

There isn't a table for determining availability of jobs.
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