The Stroy
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Joined: Thu 13 Dec 2018, 17:47

How to speed up combat

Thu 13 Dec 2018, 18:10

Hi everyone, first post here!
Any advice on how to speed up combat?

I've got very little experience with FBL and with the Y0 Engine in general, but I've noticed combat is pretty time consuming: it took 3 PCs more than 2 IRL hours to defeat 3 Orcs.
I'm aware that combat is not supposed to necessarily be to the death, and that is not as central to the game as in other systems. I'm also sure it will go faster as we learn the intricacies of die rolls, pushing, moves, etc... but still, I would like some suggestions on how to speed it up.

For example, I was thinking about foregoeing the Dodge and Parry actions with my humanoids NPCs (more damage taken by both parties = shorter fights).

Any other suggestion?
Thank you!
 
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Eldhierta
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Re: How to speed up combat

Thu 13 Dec 2018, 19:13

Hi everyone, first post here!
Any advice on how to speed up combat?

I've got very little experience with FBL and with the Y0 Engine in general, but I've noticed combat is pretty time consuming: it took 3 PCs more than 2 IRL hours to defeat 3 Orcs.
I'm aware that combat is not supposed to necessarily be to the death, and that is not as central to the game as in other systems. I'm also sure it will go faster as we learn the intricacies of die rolls, pushing, moves, etc... but still, I would like some suggestions on how to speed it up.

For example, I was thinking about foregoeing the Dodge and Parry actions with my humanoids NPCs (more damage taken by both parties = shorter fights).

Any other suggestion?
Thank you!
Wow. Fights in the Y0-engine tend to be pretty quick, so that fight must be some kind of record :) What was the main problem? Missed/bad rolls or something else? Did you account for dodge/parry consuming actions?
Last edited by Eldhierta on Thu 13 Dec 2018, 20:00, edited 1 time in total.
 
The Stroy
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Re: How to speed up combat

Thu 13 Dec 2018, 19:24

I did account for Dodge/Parry action consumption... which I think is part of the reasons the combat was so slow to begin with (the fewer the actions spent attacking, the longer the number of rounds needed to kill something).

I'm sure at least 30-45 mins have been spent checking the rules, since we were all unfamiliar with the system, but 1-2 hours for such a minor fight still seem way too much. Bad luck also had its weight, I guess, but I don't think it accounts for a lot.

I think it had more to do with how Armor, Parry and Dodge work, often negating whole attacks which would otherwise have been lethal. It was some weeks ago, though, so I don't remember everything clearly.

Anyways, as I said we were (and still are) completely new to the game, so of you tell me that Y0 combat is usually fast, I guess we probably got something wrong. I'll start by checking what you suggested the next time we play FBL, probably also a few weeks from now.

In the meantime, thanks for the quick reply. If you have any other advice, it would be welcomed!
 
RenoGM
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Re: How to speed up combat

Fri 14 Dec 2018, 19:45

Wow, I wish I could help. We've played 5 or 6 sessions and our longest combat (with 5 players) took maybe 30 minutes, most take less then 15. In every combat we've had a least one PC Broken. Although your players might have better luck with the dice because in all of our sessions I've seen Armor negate a grand total of 4 or 5 points of damage; and everyone wears armor!

That being said here are a couple things I do as a GM that may help:
  • I don't have NPC's Dodge or Parry unless they are a significant, named bad guy.
  • I don't have NPC's wear much armor (maybe leather armor at the most).
  • I don't Push rolls with NPC's (sometimes I do with Monsters though).
  • I usually have in mind what will cause NPC's to break and flee combat or surrender. Most everyone has a pretty strong sense of self-preservation, especially in a gritty setting like this.
  • I have three huge piles of D6's. I assemble a dice pool at the start of combat for each NPC so it's ready to roll when they act. I also use the Base Dice portion of the pool to track NPC damage by removing one Base Die from the pool each time they take damage.
You may also need to "train" your players to be more decisive and act faster. A few years ago I brought a 1-minute sand timer to the table and flipped it over when it was a player's turn. This really helped by making players figure out what they are going to do while the other players are taking their turns. I Forbidden Lands we move quick; when an NPC attacks I grab their prepared dice pool (see above), ask the player if they are defending, give them about a couple of seconds to answer and roll. I've had to enforce a little speed at our table because I have a few players that will think and overthink their actions forever if I let them! 
 
RenoGM
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Re: How to speed up combat

Fri 14 Dec 2018, 19:49

One other thing, don't forget that successes on an Armor roll negate damage, not hits like Dodge or Parry. With only a 1 in 6 chance of any Armor die negating a point of damage, and most successful attacks doing 3 or 4 points of damage, it should be kind of rare for armor to completely negate incoming damage. At least that's been our experience. 
 
The Stroy
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Re: How to speed up combat

Fri 14 Dec 2018, 23:10

Thanks!
I'm becoming more and more convinced that slow combat was our fault - for which I'm happy, since it means we can easily work and improve.

Keep the suggestions coming. if you've got any, they're all useful!
 
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The1TrueFredrix
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Re: How to speed up combat

Sun 16 Dec 2018, 01:06

Woah! Over two hours?! In our recent Grindbone challenge at Dragonmeet, we whittled 16 PCs down to one winner in just two and a half hours. And that was four two vs two fights, two semi-finals, a final (with full healing between rounds) and then turning the winning team against each other. Most of the Players were newbies, so there was lots of referring to the rules. Two thoughts - 
were you reducing the effectiveness of wounded characters? ie an Orc with five strength and , say 1 rank in melee roles 6 dice plus any weapon bonus, but if it takes two damage, it’ll be be rolling just four plus gear bonus. 
Were upyou using the hidden combinations? Don’t use these for every fight (or, I suggest, for beginners)
Last edited by The1TrueFredrix on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 01:13, edited 1 time in total.
Effekt - A fan podcast celebrating Swedish RPGs including, but not limited to: Alien; Coriolis; Forbidden Lands; Symbaroum; and Tales from the Loop. Featuring discussion magazine episodes and Actual Play recordings. https://effektpodcast.org/
 
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The1TrueFredrix
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Re: How to speed up combat

Sun 16 Dec 2018, 01:10

Remember too that a dodge (generally) leaves the dodging character prostrate, so they must spend a fast action getting up, and not every weapon can parry effectively 
Effekt - A fan podcast celebrating Swedish RPGs including, but not limited to: Alien; Coriolis; Forbidden Lands; Symbaroum; and Tales from the Loop. Featuring discussion magazine episodes and Actual Play recordings. https://effektpodcast.org/
 
The Stroy
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Re: How to speed up combat

Sun 16 Dec 2018, 12:17

We were reducing the effectiveness of wounded NPCs, using shields to parry and calculating the fact dodging characters became prone. We didn't use hidden combinations, especially since the cards were yet to arrive.

I forgot to tell that we used Legends & Adventurers to generate the characters: we probably got unlucky with the weapons so that the PCs were doing to little damage.

That being said, the fact every single expert player who's answering is baffled by our time is enough to reassure me that the combat in FBL is fast as I like it and that we probably got something wrong, as fighting with underequipped PCs, or were simply noobs or unlucky: we probably lost more time than I remember checking the rules and just got unlucky (or lucky, from the orcs point of view) with Armor rolls.

Thanks again to all for the response!
 
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The1TrueFredrix
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Re: How to speed up combat

Sun 16 Dec 2018, 12:36

Just to say all the PCs in the Tournament were also created with L&A, and similarly poorly armed. One of the runners-up took out an opponent with a cooking pot! I guess it might just we practice and getting used to the system  :D
Effekt - A fan podcast celebrating Swedish RPGs including, but not limited to: Alien; Coriolis; Forbidden Lands; Symbaroum; and Tales from the Loop. Featuring discussion magazine episodes and Actual Play recordings. https://effektpodcast.org/

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