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User avatar
King_Kull
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: The problem with Magic

Fri 09 Feb 2018, 14:30

Like this fleeing. As FbL isn't a typically heroic fantasy they don't have to be ashamed of the act. Kind of like it, that the characters will be more... human. Lack a better word for it ;)
I am king!
 
User avatar
Fenhorn
Posts: 773
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Mariestad (Sverige, Tellus)

Re: The problem with Magic

Fri 09 Feb 2018, 14:31

Better to run away and live today so you can runaway and live another day.
"War, war never changes" - Lone Wanderer
 
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9littlebees
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat 18 Feb 2017, 14:22
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: The problem with Magic

Fri 09 Feb 2018, 14:46

Fenhorn wrote:
Better to run away and live today so you can runaway and live another day.

Haha, great quote - you should put that in your signature!!
Working on Nordsaga, a career-focused dark Viking game, powered by the Year Zero engine: https://tinyurl.com/nordsaga-forum
 
User avatar
King_Kull
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: The problem with Magic

Fri 09 Feb 2018, 15:12

Fenhorn wrote:
Better to run away and live today so you can runaway and live another day.

:lol:
I am king!
 
User avatar
Fragpuss
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: The problem with Magic

Sat 10 Feb 2018, 14:04

9littlebees wrote:
You're correct, perhaps my concerns isn't justified. I think my worries are created by the way of WP generation. It's absolutely my fault that I don't like it, I know it. It's just not my taste. As Fragpuss said it's more natural to me that I award WP rather than players push their characters to get WP. And therefore they become crippled that is something that I have in the back of my mind. It's not only the spellbinders but other characters would like to use their WP talents. And when they get WP their characters get worse because they have misery. I hope that it will be good to play as RAW but as you hacked MY0 I think I will change WP in my campaign if it doesn't fit my campaign.

+1
For me a deterministic method of generating WP would be better (and fairer?). Ultimately, I can live with linking it to dice roll outcomes, just - but having it coupled to Misery simply doesn't sit right. It seems too much like Bruce Banner having to get the **** beaten out of him before he changes into the Hulk (but only several hours later, when he decides he wants to?).
As I've said, I'm broadly happy with what I've heard about the ebb and flow of WP from the playtests, the numbers don't seem crazy, but I think the core concept is flawed. I hope it can be looked at again - it should be possible to achieve a similar effect in a more logical way.
I'm going to come down off my soapbox now and let this rest - I've had my say and ultimately, if I can't live with the final RAW, I can just pull on my house-ruling boots and go to work.
 
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9littlebees
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat 18 Feb 2017, 14:22
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: The problem with Magic

Sat 10 Feb 2018, 14:31

Fragpuss wrote:
9littlebees wrote:
What King_Kull actually said

+1
For me a deterministic method of generating WP would be better (and fairer?). Ultimately, I can live with linking it to dice roll outcomes, just - but having it coupled to Misery simply doesn't sit right. It seems too much like Bruce Banner having to get the **** beaten out of him before he changes into the Hulk (but only several hours later, when he decides he wants to?).
As I've said, I'm broadly happy with what I've heard about the ebb and flow of WP from the playtests, the numbers don't seem crazy, but I think the core concept is flawed. I hope it can be looked at again - it should be possible to achieve a similar effect in a more logical way.
I'm going to come down off my soapbox now and let this rest - I've had my say and ultimately, if I can't live with the final RAW, I can just pull on my house-ruling boots and go to work.

You're actually quoting King_Kull, not me. ;-)
Working on Nordsaga, a career-focused dark Viking game, powered by the Year Zero engine: https://tinyurl.com/nordsaga-forum
 
User avatar
Fragpuss
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: The problem with Magic

Sat 10 Feb 2018, 15:00

Oops! Apologies to both of you  :oops:

I did't want to quote everything in the post so I cut a bunch of text out - must have left the wrong heading. This thread is quite long enough as it is  :lol:
 
User avatar
Eldhierta
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:39

Re: The problem with Magic

Sat 10 Feb 2018, 17:08

Fragpuss wrote:
9littlebees wrote:
You're correct, perhaps my concerns isn't justified. I think my worries are created by the way of WP generation. It's absolutely my fault that I don't like it, I know it. It's just not my taste. As Fragpuss said it's more natural to me that I award WP rather than players push their characters to get WP. And therefore they become crippled that is something that I have in the back of my mind. It's not only the spellbinders but other characters would like to use their WP talents. And when they get WP their characters get worse because they have misery. I hope that it will be good to play as RAW but as you hacked MY0 I think I will change WP in my campaign if it doesn't fit my campaign.

+1
For me a deterministic method of generating WP would be better (and fairer?). Ultimately, I can live with linking it to dice roll outcomes, just - but having it coupled to Misery simply doesn't sit right. It seems too much like Bruce Banner having to get the **** beaten out of him before he changes into the Hulk (but only several hours later, when he decides he wants to?).
As I've said, I'm broadly happy with what I've heard about the ebb and flow of WP from the playtests, the numbers don't seem crazy, but I think the core concept is flawed. I hope it can be looked at again - it should be possible to achieve a similar effect in a more logical way.
I'm going to come down off my soapbox now and let this rest - I've had my say and ultimately, if I can't live with the final RAW, I can just pull on my house-ruling boots and go to work.


Well, how about if you change your view on what willpower is? Instead of a stat pool it's more like a charge, kind of like static. Trauma and misery compound this charge, building it up until you release it in spectacular fashion. So the ability to cast spells or perform spectacular feats is your reward for striving for greater things and suffering in the process.

If you wanna spice it up or increase the flow of WP, add a talent that allows your players to gain WP every time they are damaged in combat, not only from pushing rolls. Might wanna limit it to those WP only being available for a short time, so they have to be expended before fizzling. Could be fun for a character that get's more dangerous and volatile the closer (s)he is to death.
 
Diesel_dejavu
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 02:34

Re: The problem with Magic

Sat 10 Feb 2018, 17:26

Eldhierta wrote:
Fragpuss wrote:
9littlebees wrote:
You're correct, perhaps my concerns isn't justified. I think my worries are created by the way of WP generation. It's absolutely my fault that I don't like it, I know it. It's just not my taste. As Fragpuss said it's more natural to me that I award WP rather than players push their characters to get WP. And therefore they become crippled that is something that I have in the back of my mind. It's not only the spellbinders but other characters would like to use their WP talents. And when they get WP their characters get worse because they have misery. I hope that it will be good to play as RAW but as you hacked MY0 I think I will change WP in my campaign if it doesn't fit my campaign.

+1
For me a deterministic method of generating WP would be better (and fairer?). Ultimately, I can live with linking it to dice roll outcomes, just - but having it coupled to Misery simply doesn't sit right. It seems too much like Bruce Banner having to get the **** beaten out of him before he changes into the Hulk (but only several hours later, when he decides he wants to?).
As I've said, I'm broadly happy with what I've heard about the ebb and flow of WP from the playtests, the numbers don't seem crazy, but I think the core concept is flawed. I hope it can be looked at again - it should be possible to achieve a similar effect in a more logical way.
I'm going to come down off my soapbox now and let this rest - I've had my say and ultimately, if I can't live with the final RAW, I can just pull on my house-ruling boots and go to work.


Well, how about if you change your view on what willpower is? Instead of a stat pool it's more like a charge, kind of like static. Trauma and misery compound this charge, building it up until you release it in spectacular fashion. So the ability to cast spells or perform spectacular feats is your reward for striving for greater things and suffering in the process.

If you wanna spice it up or increase the flow of WP, add a talent that allows your players to gain WP every time they are damaged in combat, not only from pushing rolls. Might wanna limit it to those WP only being available for a short time, so they have to be expended before fizzling. Could be fun for a character that get's more dangerous and volatile the closer (s)he is to death.


+1 “Vindictive” talent
 
User avatar
Fragpuss
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: The problem with Magic

Sat 10 Feb 2018, 17:58

Eldhierta wrote:
Fragpuss wrote:
9littlebees wrote:
You're correct, perhaps my concerns isn't justified. I think my worries are created by the way of WP generation. It's absolutely my fault that I don't like it, I know it. It's just not my taste. As Fragpuss said it's more natural to me that I award WP rather than players push their characters to get WP. And therefore they become crippled that is something that I have in the back of my mind. It's not only the spellbinders but other characters would like to use their WP talents. And when they get WP their characters get worse because they have misery. I hope that it will be good to play as RAW but as you hacked MY0 I think I will change WP in my campaign if it doesn't fit my campaign.

+1
For me a deterministic method of generating WP would be better (and fairer?). Ultimately, I can live with linking it to dice roll outcomes, just - but having it coupled to Misery simply doesn't sit right. It seems too much like Bruce Banner having to get the **** beaten out of him before he changes into the Hulk (but only several hours later, when he decides he wants to?).
As I've said, I'm broadly happy with what I've heard about the ebb and flow of WP from the playtests, the numbers don't seem crazy, but I think the core concept is flawed. I hope it can be looked at again - it should be possible to achieve a similar effect in a more logical way.
I'm going to come down off my soapbox now and let this rest - I've had my say and ultimately, if I can't live with the final RAW, I can just pull on my house-ruling boots and go to work.


Well, how about if you change your view on what willpower is? Instead of a stat pool it's more like a charge, kind of like static. Trauma and misery compound this charge, building it up until you release it in spectacular fashion. So the ability to cast spells or perform spectacular feats is your reward for striving for greater things and suffering in the process.

If you wanna spice it up or increase the flow of WP, add a talent that allows your players to gain WP every time they are damaged in combat, not only from pushing rolls. Might wanna limit it to those WP only being available for a short time, so they have to be expended before fizzling. Could be fun for a character that get's more dangerous and volatile the closer (s)he is to death.

I could almost buy that for magic because hey, it's magic, or for certain combat talents, but why should trauma and misery make you better at disguising yourself or pulling poisons out of your backpack? A lot of the talents just aren't 'spectacular' in the way that you're describing. 
I just think it's back-to-front - straining yourself by casting a spell or activating a talent makes sense to me, but straining yourself the day before and then casting a spell later with no consequences doesn't. By losing that immediate link, it makes the whole thing too abstract for my taste. It makes it feel a bit video-gamey, you wander around powering up and then set off your smart-bomb during the boss battle. Talent first followed by a consequence feels more natural.
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