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HattenJr
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat 29 Oct 2016, 16:21

The problem with Magic

Tue 06 Feb 2018, 18:53

Now I want to start by saying that I actualy like the Magic system and I understand what it is trying to do. The only problem I have with it so far is that it encurages the player to try and fail rolls just so he can charge his Willpower to cast spells. As said, I like the part that one has to do other things besides magic to earn the magic but with the system as it is right now the mage players is only going to try and fail as many random rolls as he can just so he can get the Willpower needed for the spells.
Now I havent actuely tested the game yet so feel free to tell me if I am wrong or if anyone experience it diffrently.
 
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Fenhorn
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Mariestad (Sverige, Tellus)

Re: The problem with Magic

Tue 06 Feb 2018, 19:15

You only get WP if you push a skill roll and only if you have rolled a bane (1). Banes (1:s) also gives you misery. Can be very dangerous to running around in the wilderness injured. Strength is of course the most dangerous one of the attributes to get a misery in (since this is how you die), but the other attributes are just as bad. In our testsession a week ago, the players all died. Half of them of fatigue (caused by a smelling troll).

If a player thinks that he ca "just push a couple of skill rolls" and then eat, drink, listen to a song and then sleep so you are healed up and then do the same thing the next day so he "just can earn up his 10 WP" either has a very nice GM or is tremendously lucky.

We only have had two testsessions yet and so far the WP flow has been ok. No player has felt the need to do something extra to get WP and even if they have felt that way sometimes, they surely couldn't afford it.
"War, war never changes" - Lone Wanderer
 
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9littlebees
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat 18 Feb 2017, 14:22
Location: Rural Germany
Contact:

Re: The problem with Magic

Tue 06 Feb 2018, 20:20

HattenJr wrote:
Now I want to start by saying that I actualy like the Magic system and I understand what it is trying to do. The only problem I have with it so far is that it encurages the player to try and fail rolls just so he can charge his Willpower to cast spells. As said, I like the part that one has to do other things besides magic to earn the magic but with the system as it is right now the mage players is only going to try and fail as many random rolls as he can just so he can get the Willpower needed for the spells.
Now I havent actuely tested the game yet so feel free to tell me if I am wrong or if anyone experience it diffrently.

The system is a tried and true one, identical to how Mutation Points work in Mutant Year Zero.

I strongly suggest you playtest before declaring it broken, because as Fenhorn states, you gain Misery (and hence lowered Attributes) each time you gain a WP.
I'm an English game designer working on Nordsaga, a career-focused dark Viking game, powered by the Year Zero engine: https://9littlebees.com
 
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Fenhorn
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Mariestad (Sverige, Tellus)

Re: The problem with Magic

Tue 06 Feb 2018, 21:25

I should add also that, besides combat, you don't make that many skill rolls in this game (or in any other of FLs games), you only roll for important things. Situations that can be dangerous to get misery in. A Pathfinder can of course push his Lead the Way roll and if gets a Bane, he will get a WP but also a Confusion Misery (Wits) meaning that he will use less dice for any other Wits skill roll and that means less chance of succeeding with those rolls, for example another Lead the Way or a Make Camp rolls. The Mishap tables (for various Survival rolls) can be very dangerous for the group.

 You roll more in combat of course, but since most rolls in combat uses Strength, something that more directly can be dangerous since it will affect your skill rolls in a fight and of course how much you can take before you become broken.

But one thing is true, you need to use your skills on a regular basis, otherwise you will not get any WP. I think the players need to find their balance of just their particular group, what everyone does and so on (so everyone contributes to the story). This can perhaps be little tricky in the beginning.
"War, war never changes" - Lone Wanderer
 
Jizmack
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri 12 Feb 2016, 23:48

Re: The problem with Magic

Wed 07 Feb 2018, 00:54

Consider the following example of gameplay:
Spell caster character has to climb up a steep hill with a skill roll.
It’s a very tough climb, and so the skill roll is pushed (not a good climber).
The spell caster suffers fatigue (gains Willpower) but is still not done with the climb (didn’t roll enough 6s).
The spell caster says, “Ah, the hell with this!” and casts a levitate spell to get to the top (spending the Willpower point).
Note the character got to the top of the steep hill suffering fatigue and no extra Willpower remaining.
 
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Fenhorn
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Mariestad (Sverige, Tellus)

Re: The problem with Magic

Wed 07 Feb 2018, 01:05

Some notes about skill rolls

You don't roll that many skill rolls in this game, besides in combat situations, and combat is usually very fast (and lethal). You are not supposed to make "multiple" climbing rolls (move rolls). You make one roll (modified +-3 for difficulty). You only roll for important things.

If you come from more traditional gaming where you roll "once every 10 feet" or something like that, it can be a little bit of a transition period.

From p40 (Skills)

DON’T ROLL TOO OFTEN
It’s hard to succeed in the
Forbidden Lands. If you lack the
right gear or friends that can
help you, there is a great risk of
spectacular failure. With that in
mind, you should never roll dice
unless it is absolutely necessary.
Save the dice for dramatic
situations or tough challenges.
In any other situation, the GM
should simply allow you to perform
whatever action you wish.

Also, a failure has consequences.
"War, war never changes" - Lone Wanderer
 
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King_Kull
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: The problem with Magic

Wed 07 Feb 2018, 09:28

If you roll only dice if it’s important than you will not collect very many WP. That was something I have written in another post. And if you succeed why push yourself to get another result only to get WP but risk misery? Ok I confess I never played a game with the MY0 engine perhaps it will be as Fenhorn has written and the flow is alright. But I think that I will give WP for good roleplaying or a important encounter in the game. I’m not as convinced of this Mysery = WP rule. But it’s only my taste. I also think about to give all players 1 WP at the start of the session if they have 0.
I am king!
 
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Erzaad
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu 01 Dec 2016, 22:54
Location: Ohio

Re: The problem with Magic

Wed 07 Feb 2018, 18:12

I don't know if there is a similar rule here, but in MY0 you get some free points at the beginning of each session depending on the number of mutations you have.
 
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King_Kull
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: The problem with Magic

Wed 07 Feb 2018, 18:19

Erzaad wrote:
I don't know if there is a similar rule here, but in MY0 you get some free points at the beginning of each session depending on the number of mutations you have.


As there are no mutations in FbL there are no WP for „free“ ;)
I am king!
 
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Erzaad
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu 01 Dec 2016, 22:54
Location: Ohio

Re: The problem with Magic

Wed 07 Feb 2018, 18:32

Well, it could have been based on the number of talents. I didn't review the alpha too closely yet.
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