Crashw1re
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Joined: Sat 07 Oct 2017, 12:05

Fortresses

Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:00

Having played a lot of Mutant I am very exited for forbidden lands, the free form exploration and encounter generation of Mutant in a traditional hack and loot game I think will be increadible. I also loved thr settlement building in Mutant and with every new RPG players dream of taking the fort of the latest baddy and making it a base a possibility in forbidden lands I am buzzing for that. However I just wanted to moot my suggestions for this system and hopefully get a conversation started.

In Mutant I thought town building was a little limited, the culture and technology stats being pretty limited. I emded up house ruling in two additions. Players would each gain a culture point for every 10 points of culture. This represented the resolve to live they gain from actually living in a nice place with religion or a bar ect. They could spend this to add things into the game like many systems or more radically re roll 1s on a push. Regarding technology there was so many ways to gain it I incrwaeed the bands to, 10 20 40 70 and said all gear (not weapons) now give bonus doce equal to your technology rank. I found these changes really helped make town building decisions more interesting making all four stats important and invested players in the town. It was very cool when a radical sect destroyed the temple and god effigy (the blue whale bones in the british science museum) and they lost a culture point. Them failing to prevent it had mechanical and story ramifications.

Anyway obviously this wouldnt be exactly what i wamt put of Forbidden Lands but I would love it if there was various benefits from upgrading a fortress and if those benefits included the comfort and saftey a fotress in a strange land can provide. Perhaps something like the culture system I imagined.
 
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Tomas
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Re: Fortresses

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 10:12

Great to get the discussion going! What would you all want to see in the Stronghold system? The core of it is already designed, but as this is the only section of the rules that won't be a part of the Alpha PDF, there is certainly time for a creative discussion on it. :)
Fria Ligan
 
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Klas
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Joined: Sun 04 Nov 2012, 19:17

Re: Fortresses

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 11:40

How to generate encounters around / gainst / within it. I don't care for resource management unless it provides narrative :)
And advice for how to populate it (our heroes want staff, right?) in ways that can produce interesting incidents.
 
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AndersP
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Re: Fortresses

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 12:02

Some thoughts in broken English (more to come):

Fortresses should be able to be upgraded to produce for example food resources and other resources that is needed for the PCs. That way they will need to spend less time finding resources the more they upgrade that part of the fortress.

Another upgrade should be to upgrade weapons for an extra die (or a D8 instead of D6), this should cost a lot of money/resources but would give the PC an extra edge. Upgrades could both be a better forge, but also a better smith. This would also give some adventure hooks. Suddenly, the smith is abducted and the players need to find him/her or lose the ability to upgrade weapon.

Thirdly there is of course different magic upgrades, for example an alchemist lab etc. (dependent on the magic system that you will use).

It would also be interesting to have a zone of influence. The Forbidden Lands is a dangerous place, but perhaps the players could make it safer (for them at least!). In the beginning it might be that the hex that the fortress is in is a safe place, but by upgrading the guard force at the fortress hexes nearby might be safe also. Of course, it might not be 100 % safe but perhaps safer at least. This way, the players can start their own little kingdom.

My final thought is that the players always need to feel that their fortress could be lost, other groups in the Forbidden lands should be able to attack the Fortress and in a worst case scenario take it from the players. Perhaps their players should have built at secret entrance so they could take back their fortress easier instead of upgrading their alchemist lab...
 
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King_Kull
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Re: Fortresses

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 16:00

As a fortress is something like the ship from Coriolis the fortress has to have attributes - correct? Fortification, Reputation, Defenses, Watch and Supply perhaps.
Fortification: To resist attacks
Reputation: The higher the easier to get good personal
Combat Power: To attack back against attackers
Watch: To spot danger
Supply: How autonomous the fortress is

And I would like to see that every character has a task like the pilot or the gunner for a ship. The watch captain, the treasurer, etc.
I am king!
 
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Eldhierta
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Re: Fortresses

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 16:27

I'd like for the fortress to be something of an achilles' heel in addition to all the beneficial effects lined out above. So aside from all the positive stats it should also gain notoriety/fame and the higher it goes, the higher the risk for other factions wanting to claim it. So the more artifacts and riches the players store at the fortress or as it becomes a significantly more important strategic position in the Forbidden Lands, the greater the risk of losing it. To offset this they build defenses, hire a standing guard force, enlist the aid of an artificer that creates a small army of homonculi, form an alliance with a local clan of wolfmen, etc. And then, in the end, maybe some of said forces betray them and take the fortress for their own? All because the players forgot about hiring an HR Manager. The hearts of men and beasts are fickle things ;)

Plenty of adventure hooks to be had :D 
 
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Brior
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Re: Fortresses

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 16:38

I'd like for the fortress to be something of an achilles' heel in addition to all the beneficial effects lined out above. So aside from all the positive stats it should also gain notoriety/fame and the higher it goes, the higher the risk for other factions wanting to claim it.
I've suggested things along this line to FL, that you will inevitably attract attention from other powers as your wealth and power grows.
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Fortresses

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 17:00

One of my players mentioned that he didn't like the Ark mechanics in MYZ, saying they felt too "meta", taking him out of the fiction.  Coincidentally, he is by far the biggest lover of MYZ at our table, so this was some pretty serious criticism.  While I don't share his feelings, I can see where he is coming from, so I'm hoping the new Fortress mechanics will feel a bit more natural in Forbidden Lands.

I agree with Eldhierta that there should be some negative aspects to the Fortress, too, especially as this is a bit of a dark setting.  Reputation / Notoriety / Fame is definitely a good start.  For example, claiming treasure whilst adventuring and storing it at the Fortress should definitely up it's "Notoriety" score, making it a much more juicy target for rivals.  If the fortress isn't adequately guarded, than scouting enemies may very well try and raze the fortress while the party are out on their next adventure...  Ooooh, lots of follow-on ideas are starting to percolate just thinking about this...  :-)

Anyway, looking to other games, I think the Crew / Lair mechanics from Blades in the Dark has some excellent "base" mechanics.  One aspect of their system I really like is in terms of Claims, which basically see your crew increasing the physical area of their territory with a grid-like map.  Each additional claim added to the Crew's turf brings with it an upgrade, like bonuses to Stealth, Deception, Body Disposal, etc depending on the nature of the new Claim.  Not sure if something like this could be implemented here, as this really works well in urban fantasy.  That said, I think elements of this could maybe be ported over to Forbidden Lands.

For example, you could have a small, blank hex map on the Fortress Sheet (I'm assuming it will have its own sheet!) with the actual Fortress at the centre (see image below for an example of what I mean).  Surrounding areas could be things like Arable Land (allowing for farming, to increase population or food scores), Forest (providing timber, which could be a resource requirement for certain upgrades, like improved defenses or higher quality buildings), Swamps (providing alchemical ingredients [toads, mushrooms, crazy flowers, etc] for certain magical or medical upgrades), etc, etc.

PM me if you'd like more info on the Blades in the Dark crew mechanics.

Image
Last edited by 9littlebees on Tue 12 Dec 2017, 17:08, edited 2 times in total.
I make YZE games (https://drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?author=Matt%20Kay) and produce predominately Free League content on my YouTube channel (https://youtube.com/@3skulls)
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Fortresses

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 17:02

I'd like for the fortress to be something of an achilles' heel in addition to all the beneficial effects lined out above. So aside from all the positive stats it should also gain notoriety/fame and the higher it goes, the higher the risk for other factions wanting to claim it.
I've suggested things along this line to FL, that you will inevitably attract attention from other powers as your wealth and power grows.
Cool, hopefully we'll see something like this, then!!
I make YZE games (https://drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?author=Matt%20Kay) and produce predominately Free League content on my YouTube channel (https://youtube.com/@3skulls)
 
Crashw1re
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Joined: Sat 07 Oct 2017, 12:05

Re: Fortresses

Tue 12 Dec 2017, 21:17

I love the idea of your fortress having reputation attached to it. It would be interesting if after a quest you could claim trophies amd hang them in your fortress, they would give you small bonuses perhaps or just increase your rep. But if you killed a monster terrorising a town you would gain positive rep or if you abandoned the princess for treasure you do get rep but its evil rep. Trophies would also be a nice reminder of past quests. Bit of a chaotic idea at them momet but i like in theory, giving each stronghold its own personality.

Being able to spread out from your fortress at least a small way, like your map, would be awesome and make a lot of sense. You could bring people from the wilds into your fortress. Something i would really like that was touched upon was characters joining you. Like the smith coming along, or a bard or watch captain. Givong your base more personality amd benefits. You would have physical building upgrades and then people as well. Also if characters already had say the craft skill, the smith could work as an assistant and grant a buff that you wouldnt otherwose get. Or he cluld work seperatly and churn out some good stuff.

Also i would really love upgrades like an improved grand hall or a better kitchen or nicer furniture ect. I imagine these strongholds will be claimed from creatures that dont keep it in the nicest nick. We should have to work to get it feeling a bit mkre like home and when it is a comfy place to live then they should get some benefot from that.

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